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MPSimmons 1 hours ago [-]
Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?
I don't mind folding. I think it's cool, and a nice way to get a useful space. But I have big hands, and I can't use my iphone 17 now without two hands. This is even wider before unfolding.
Who wants bigger phones? Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?
I want smaller phones. The width of the iPhone 4 was nearly perfect imo. If they would take modern display technology with approximately that width and expand it to 16:9, I think it would kill, even if it were relatively underpowered compared to the modern top of the line.
CoolestBeans 45 minutes ago [-]
Because for a lot (most?) people their iPhone is their primary and only personal computer. I also want a smaller phone. I bet Apple designers would love to sell you a smaller phone. They've certainly tried with my beloved and retired iPhone mini and the same size but thinner iPhone air. But the market keeps rejecting it because it's not just a portable companion to some other computer, it is the computer. If you're doing all your work on it then you need more real estate. Aging populations across the globe probably need more screen real estate also for bigger text.
ridgeguy 14 minutes ago [-]
My need for this new iPhone is driven by my declining vision. Twenty years ago, I had no problem with my first iPhone. Five years ago, I started to get acquainted with some of the visual accommodation measures in iOS. I do still use my (physically larger than I would like) iPhone 16 Pro Max, which I bought for the biggest screen.
I'd love to do my stuff on my laptop or desktop, but smartphones are de facto The Computer these days. So I'll probably buy an iPhone Duo after I sell a kidney for financing.
All that said, today's Apple presentation left me gobsmacked at the technology they've developed. I was born before civilian jet transports were in service, with all that implies for a long personal view of tech dev. The tech feels to me like a cut&paste from 2076.
hedgehog 43 minutes ago [-]
They confused "smaller" with "budget" though, if the good camera was available in the smaller size I would have bought it.
andsoitis 34 seconds ago [-]
> They confused "smaller" with "budget" though
Apple is in the luxury business.
ACCount37 8 minutes ago [-]
Camera blocks take internal volume. Smaller phones have less internal volume to spend - while still having to pack all the non-negotiables like the modem and the SoC into it. Something's got to give. And no one want that something to be the battery life going down to 6 hours.
Volume constraints are bad enough for "normal" models. "Minis" have it way worse.
Jtsummers 54 seconds ago [-]
[delayed]
gambiting 13 minutes ago [-]
Same, I look longingly at the Samsung Flip and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if only it had the camera system from the Ultra. I'll even pay the Ultra price+extra for the foldable function.
But right now it's in a space where you're paying extra for the fact that it's a foldable, but it feels....budget in its specs? Like...how does that work?
moconnor 21 minutes ago [-]
The iPhone Air is nearly 20% larger than the mini
gommm 25 minutes ago [-]
As my eyesight is getting worse I do end up appreciating bigger phones. Even though I miss how smaller phones felt in my hand, it's just hard to see small text on it and that's even though I don't use my phone all that much since I have a kindle for reading and a computer for everything else.
MostlyStable 25 minutes ago [-]
I'm honestly curious about the "market keeps rejecting it" part. Yes, they sold far fewer units than the other models....but did they really not make money? I have made variations on this comment many many times. I completely buy that the opinions about phone form factor and features expressed on HN/reddit/online, and my own idiosyncratic preferences probably even more so, represent somewhat of a niche, and that your median phone consumer isn't interested in what we/I want. But the phone market seems like it's so large that it should be able to support a lot of niches! A tenth of a percent of the total market (~1,300 million in 2023 according to [0], 0.1% of which would be 1.3 million phones) should be totally viable as a business! I get that, maybe for Apple there is opportunity cost. Having more product lines adds overhead, and if the profit margin on those extra product lines isn't enough higher than the main lines to justify that overhead, they kill it. But why doesn't some smaller company (so yes, this mostly applies to Android) try to steal that fractional market share? I simply don't understand why it doesn't work to the point that now, when the market is so much larger than it was in the past, we have so much less hardware diversity.
Apple's whole thing is that they don't do niches. Support a select few versions of select few products very very well is the whole MO
gambiting 11 minutes ago [-]
Why does the Vision Pro exist then? What is that if not a niche? What about the iPad Mini or for that matter the Mac Mini, which if not for the recent AI craze would have been cut in the next few years for sure.
Apple can absolutely do niche products. Just not this one I guess.
ericmay 19 minutes ago [-]
> but did they really not make money?
I'm sure they made money. But that's not the right question to ask, in my opinion. The right question is did they make as much or more than their internal rate of return (IRR)? Perhaps the smaller iPhones (I had one) do not so they cut the product line. Or maybe they over-purchased some components and figured they could make a phone or two out of them.
Freedom2 25 minutes ago [-]
Like many other HNers, I don't quite understand the appeal of not having their own computer, or even a VPS setup they can remote info for more structured work. But then I remember the famous Dropbox comment where one user had qualms, and perhaps looking outside our bubble can be worth it.
gambiting 9 minutes ago [-]
Apparently a lot of people don't even own a proper computer nowadays, be it a PC or a laptop, it's all just phones/tablets. In fact I know a university professor teaching CS and he told me that obviously not everyone, but a growing population of students starts the CS course without knowing how to use a mouse. They all have laptops, they know how to use a keyboard and a touchpad, but unless they are gamers they probably have never used a mouse.
LoganDark 30 minutes ago [-]
I really don't think this is just for people who don't have personal computers. I do think this is for people who don't want to carry additional separate devices with them in order to access the bigger-screen experiences. There are a couple gimmicks based on the fold as well.
I for one would love to have my phone turn into a tablet while I'm charging my car. Saves me from having to bring the iPad separately, which can't fit in my pocket. Would eliminate a step from that routine.
Also would love to always have that capability on me in the case where I couldn't have foreseen a need for the bigger screen. Being randomly out with friends and able to spontaneously just show them something in a way they can actually see would be nice.
dgellow 21 minutes ago [-]
And why does it need to be wider when folded for that? The competition showed that a narrow folding phone works quite well if you want to have access to a bigger screen without a different device
LoganDark 20 minutes ago [-]
Apple explained during the event why the square aspect ratio was not for them, but basically it doesn't conform to content well. You supposedly get less black bars with this approach.
synack 1 hours ago [-]
Apple Watch with cellular is effectively iPhone mini. There are 3d printable cases to make it into a bar phone.
The first Apple Watches came in 38mm and 42mm sizes. That "large" Apple Watch is the size of the current "small" Apple Watch (42mm).
thejazzman 8 minutes ago [-]
Mostly by shrinking the bezels tho
dylan604 30 minutes ago [-]
> The Apple Watches have also been getting bigger.
A large watch face has always been a style people into watches go for. It's not just a digital smartwatch trend.
coffeebeqn 23 minutes ago [-]
Pretty much All watch manufacturers have <40mm models.
Electricniko 59 minutes ago [-]
There are a lot of aluminum cases that transform the watch into an ipod, and some of them are advertised to be used as a phone as well.
RankingMember 31 minutes ago [-]
To go on a different tangent, I want a round Apple Watch. I know it's not the most efficient use of space, but dangit I don't want the weird little (but constantly-growing) square! If I have to have something on my wrist all day, I want it to look nice and not like a brick.
Reason077 3 minutes ago [-]
Try Garmin if you want a round smart watch. They get good reviews and the sporty types who own them swear by them.
Can’t imagine Apple ever doing this, though, because a round display is pretty terrible for displaying the sort of content and UI elements that iPhone/Apple Watch users are used to. Much of the UI and all existing apps would need to be completely redesigned.
throwuxiytayq 33 minutes ago [-]
I'd like to see anyone try to use this for, like, anything at all. A video of someone posting a HN comment on this thing would absolutely make my day.
RankingMember 30 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, nah, this isn't anywhere near an iPhone mini in usability. I can appreciate it as a design exercise, but as an actual daily driver? Hell no
One day the stockpiles of iPhone 13 minis will deplete to the point where making new products in that form factor is economically viable.
Until then, off to eBay we go. There are more than enough sitting around completely unused. You aren't missing out on much with 5 iPhone generations these days.
SoftTalker 50 minutes ago [-]
Yep I'm keeping my 12 mini until it fails. It's absolutely the biggest phone I would ever want. I'd prefer one a bit smaller, actually, as I still cannot reach all points on the screen one-handed, at least not without changing my grip which risks dropping it.
mikepurvis 38 minutes ago [-]
I switched off my 13 Mini this year to go to a Pixel 10 for the better Pebble support. I still miss it, it really was the last perfectly-sized phone.
coffeebeqn 15 minutes ago [-]
I’ll do the upgrade to 13 Mini from my 2020 SE once it breaks
hnfong 48 minutes ago [-]
Main issue would be impending lack of iOS updates, together with increased risk of zero-days due to AI.
exographicskip 48 minutes ago [-]
Love my 13 mini. Wish they'd 86 the SE and add USB-C to the mini instead.
Intrigued by the Duo though
imafish 35 minutes ago [-]
Also clinging on to my 12 mini in spite of decreasing battery capacity.
If there was a 15+ mini, I would’ve upgraded a long time ago.
thejazzman 6 minutes ago [-]
The 13 mini was a big battery upgrade (as someone who upgraded YoY at the time).
So if you scored a 13 mini and a fresh battery you’d probably be overjoyed from that alone
I was a mini holdout forever but now it’s hard to imagine giving up the Air’s display
Lord-Jobo 1 hours ago [-]
I really deeply wish they had attempted a profile that was 64mm wide folded and double unfolded. Height is less important.
The whole advantage of having any screen at all when folded is something quick to access and *one handable*. Just looking at the Duo, it appears too wide for that by a large amount.
If I’m forced to two hand the thing I’ll just get a phablet: no folding mechanism, no unfolding step before using properly, no gigantic price hike (guessing).
sroussey 59 minutes ago [-]
Are you left handed? The rearranging of the UI to provide navigation on the right side of the 5.4” screen seems like it was made for this exact purpose.
As an average height woman with average hands, I want
1) an Apple + Levi's collaboration to put iPad Mini sized pockets in women's jeans
2) a phone slightly smaller than the SE so I can reach the furthest corner with my thumb
blacksmith_tb 55 minutes ago [-]
I gather that for many people, their smartphone is their only computing device. Doesn't have much appeal for me, but if that was the case, I could see that nudging people towards bigger devices, even if it makes them less practical as phones you carry around / try to grasp with one hand.
seizethecheese 15 minutes ago [-]
It's battery life.
I was an iPhone 13 mini user for the last few years. I would buy a refurbished one off Amazon whenever my current one broke. I really prefer the smaller screen size.
Recently, I broke my phone again and my wife happened to have a larger iPhone laying around unused (through some accident of e-commerce). I felt weird buying a new phone when we had a perfectly good one laying around, so I decided to give it a shot.
I don't watch any video on my phone and most of my screentime is Kindle and Safari. My screentime is only like 2-3hrs per day. And yet, I still found myself chronically running out of batteries on the 13 mini. I actually now would prefer to keep my new annoyingly large 16e just to not have the battery anxiety.
(A hidden assumption in the above is that larger screens make more room for battery.)
yborg 36 seconds ago [-]
You could just get the Magsafe battery though.
mywittyname 1 hours ago [-]
A lot of people who are "mobile-only" prefer larger phones.
> But I have big hands, and I can't use my iphone 17 now without two hands.
I've never been able to use a smart phone with one hand, even an original iphone. So this is probably a really niche complaint that you and Shaq have.
kspacewalk2 56 minutes ago [-]
>A lot of people who are "mobile-only" prefer larger phones.
And a lot of people who are not prefer smaller ones.
>I've never been able to use a smart phone with one hand, even an original iphone. So this is probably a really niche complaint that you and Shaq have.
Not in the slightest. I've got a Galaxy A52, a large-ish phone for its time, and I can use it quite easily with one hand. I can't readily think of the small-hands equivalent of Shaq to compose a snarky "it's you" retort, and I'm sure it's not just you, but plenty people around you, with relatively normal hands, can use their phone with one hand.
hn_acc1 36 minutes ago [-]
To do what? I usually hold it with my left and, and one-finger (right-hand index finger) to type / scroll / select / etc. I guess I never "got" the phone model properly or something. My daughters type way faster on their phones, I can't do thumb typing (how do you hit those letters?!?), plus my thumbs get too sore too fast (decades on the edge of carpal tunnel) and/or cramp up.
I was timed at 140+ wpm in high school and online tests / etc have hit close to 200 wpm on a Qwerty. So I CAN touch-type and do it well - and keyboard + mouse is my goto jam. My favorite phone (alas, discontinued way too soon) was the Photon Q (work gave us phones way back) with slide-out physical keyboard.
I "use" an S21, but even just entering my 4-digit pin is awkward with my left thumb - is there some other way to hold it? I can't even imagine trying it with my right.. My thumbs just cramp up..
mywittyname 33 minutes ago [-]
Mobile-only is a larger segment and growing. "ipad kids" are at the age where they are "iphone teens". And it's also the segment of people who care most about phones.
Apple made smaller phones, but they don't sell. They don't sell when they are nice phones, but smaller, and they don't sell when they are cheap phones and smaller.
Tech people are like car people in that they don't really appreciate that their preferences are niche. Wanting a smaller phone is akin to wanting a smaller car
> with relatively normal hands, can use their phone with one hand.
According to the US Army, the average length of the male thumb: 2.75 in; for women it's 2.49. So we can assume the actual population averages are probably a bit lower.
That means the average iphone is larger than the average male thumb, by a reasonable amount, and it has been for quite a number of generations.
Personally, my thumb is as wide as my iphone, but practically, the way I have to hold it one-handed means that I can only reach half of the screen (technically, the bottom quadrant, so 25% of the overall screen area). I'd need another 1" or so to reach the entire width of the screen with a single hand, and idk 2"+ to navigate the entire screen one handed.
The disconnect probably comes from what it means to "use" a phone one-handed. I mean to be able to hold it in one hand and touch anywhere on the screen and perform any action. Which limits phone size to around 2.25"x4.50", or so to account for a average hand to hit 95% of surface area while holding it. You might mean, just be able to type, or just be able to scroll, which does change things.
rootusrootus 26 minutes ago [-]
> Apple made smaller phones, but they don't sell. They don't sell when they are nice phones, but smaller, and they don't sell when they are cheap phones and smaller.
They funny thing is that the sales numbers were only terrible compared to other iPhones. IIRC it was something like 3% of the iPhone market at the time of discontinuation. Not a big seller for Apple, certainly, but there were times when the Mini made the top ten list for smartphones in general.
dgellow 19 minutes ago [-]
I use my iPhone SE with one hand all the time, and have small-ish hands. Being able to use a phone with one hand is a fairly basic accessibility feature, not a niche ask
valleyer 46 minutes ago [-]
Yes, I too remember when Shaq starred in this commercial.
I'm not Shaq and I also have this complaint. Moved recently from an iPhone 13 mini which I could easily use with one hand to a iPhone 17 Pro which I can not use with one hand.
NamTaf 57 minutes ago [-]
Can confirm that I am not Shaq, but the 4S was the last phone I could use entirely one-handed (i.e. my thumb had full reach of the screen whilst my pinkie finger sat under the bottom of the phone, cradling it), and the 13 mini was the last functional size where I could reach at least part of the top of the screen with my thumb.
45 minutes ago [-]
0xdeadbeefbabe 50 minutes ago [-]
I can use iphone SE (3rd gen) with one hand, and I'm not Shaq either presumably.
Ar-Curunir 56 minutes ago [-]
What? Plenty of people can use the smaller iPhones with just one hand.
NexRebular 1 hours ago [-]
> Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?
Because the common user for some strange reason has come to prefer phablets to mobile phones.
yingw787 8 minutes ago [-]
I'm on an iPhone 13 mini and got the battery replaced this year - hoping to get another three years out of it.
hanz_gruber 44 minutes ago [-]
Nobody bought the hp veer. Small phones stopped being valuable when phones got good enough to be the only screen a layman would see in a single day. It's now a game of 'movie theater in your pocket.' For better or for worse.
Even Samsung offers their 'smaller than a normal phone unfolds to a normal phone' as secondary to the flagship fold. The Flip, to me, is almost marketed as a kid's phone for your teenager.
raised_by_foxes 54 minutes ago [-]
I specifically have an iPhone SE for this reason. I should be able to reach the upper right corner with one hand.
leoc 23 minutes ago [-]
For the Duo to make sense at all, it basically has to fold out into a screen which is big enough that (quite often, at least) you don't feel obliged to bring along a second, larger device anyway, or to wait until you get home or back to the office to "do real computer". That means that hitting a large-enough unfolded size and a suitable unfolded aspect ratio had to be Priority 1.
r0fl 59 minutes ago [-]
The data shows that people want to consume video content on their phones
So bigger screens are better
That is it. Nothing else.
tcmart14 57 minutes ago [-]
I'd also add that the mobile gaming market on iPhone is the largest individual gaming competitor, at least by the dollars, and bigger screen probably enhances play experiences that can be had on mobile.
dionian 59 minutes ago [-]
i tend to watch videso on phone but love to switch to ipad for reading documents.
al_borland 27 minutes ago [-]
I think the iPhone 3G was peak iPhone design. It felt good to hold and was small. Later small models hand sharper edges and didn’t feel as good in the hand.
The Duo’s folded size has the same screen size as the iPhone mini, so they did go on the smaller size, rather than trying to unfold a Pro Max. It remains to be seen how the aspect ratio impacts one-handed use.
I’d take a small foldable over a large slab.
dgellow 15 minutes ago [-]
iPhone 5s was peak form factor IMHO. I thought I would be tempted by the folding iPhone but it looks way too wide for me to use comfortably
brokencode 11 minutes ago [-]
They’ve made mini iPhones before and they didn’t kill. In fact, they sold poorly enough to get killed.
calebm 8 minutes ago [-]
I'm still on the iPhone 12 mini for this reason.
01100011 50 minutes ago [-]
I like bigger phones. Being over 50, my eyesight is crap and I need a bigger screen. Yeah, I miss one handed operation, but I already accepted that loss years ago. This will be the year I finally switch to apple though(18 pro max, most likely). Bye bye Pixel.
azatom 35 minutes ago [-]
> Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?
Others wrote complicated or bs jokes, here is my SIMPLE tip:
It has to change otherwise people would not buy new. Size can not change randomly so it has 2 ways: decreasing and later it becomes an iwatch, and tablet becomes a phone: this is stupid because harder to increase price.
So increase it is. If you do not like it, use a watch+earpiece as a phone.
numpad0 51 minutes ago [-]
The phone that grabs most attention always wins. Consumers don't do multi-year procurement processes unlike government agencies selecting a device - they literally gravitate towards bright light and pick up the device on the demo stand. So there's always going to be an arms race of more bigger and ever more glittery phones. That is, until a massive disruption like a flip-phone-to-smartphone transition comes and all those obnoxious peacocks gets instantly wiped out and doves come filling in the void.
aczerepinski 22 minutes ago [-]
It’s crazy that the reason we can’t have a comfortable-to-hold one is that a product that only sells 5 or 10 million units a year isn’t worth their time.
classictraffic 33 minutes ago [-]
One of the reasons I plan on purchasing the iPhone Duo is actually because it has a smaller outer screen size than any of the other iPhones. Agreed that it is wider, but I think it can still be used one handed for most people
dgellow 13 minutes ago [-]
iPhone SE?
geodel 42 minutes ago [-]
Who wants bigger phones: Tens of millions in higher end market.
Who wants smaller phones: Tens of thousands in lower end market.
wat10000 17 minutes ago [-]
People act like bigger screens and no headphone jack is some conspiracy. It’s a competitive market. Small phones exist. Headphone jacks exist. They’re obscure because they don’t sell well, because that’s not what most people want.
It’s frustrating when you have an uncommon desire for a mass market product, I get it. But the answer to “why do they” is pretty obvious if you can understand that you’re not representative.
dgellow 11 minutes ago [-]
By that metric they shouldn’t release a folding phone at all, it’s a very niche market
HPsquared 50 minutes ago [-]
Cars also seem to get bigger with each iteration. Then the introduce new smaller models that are the same size as the earlier model..
an0malous 23 minutes ago [-]
I would guess more people care about battery life and the features that more battery capacity afford than ergonomics
speerer 49 minutes ago [-]
> Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?
Because every time, they want it to be the next big thing.
tedd4u 15 minutes ago [-]
Bigger phone = bigger battery = more time between charges
aqme28 38 minutes ago [-]
I also have huge hands, but a few years ago started to develop a persistent thumb sprain due “reaching” with it across my phone. This is problem that would not have happened if my phone was the size they used to be.
flurdy 35 minutes ago [-]
Yeah. A foldable that is the size of the 12 mini so that you can use it with one hand but still fold out to watch something etc.
But instead we got the largest screen before unfolding…
harikb 59 minutes ago [-]
While I agree on screen size, Apple does give a good amount of thought into application side of things - screen-layout fall into either the iPad like layout or single-column one of a regular phone. This is a bit easier for App developers. Also force-upgrade of OS is also better for those targeting iOS compared to the Android world.
pkulak 56 minutes ago [-]
For me it's fitting the damn thing in my pocket. And unfortunately, width is the main limiter there, making this far WORSE than any other, despite the smaller screen. I can't imagine what this thing would do to your jeans. Apple needs to sell tiny man satchels with this thing.
mikepurvis 36 minutes ago [-]
Agree. The comparison to a passport is ludicrous since a passport can be curled around your leg when it's in a pocket where this obviously cannot.
MattDamonSpace 11 minutes ago [-]
Did you use the iPhone mini
ejohansson 35 minutes ago [-]
For a second there from the name I was really hopeful that iPhone Duo _could_ have been the replacement for my iPhone 13 Mini.
foobarian 28 minutes ago [-]
Maybe an increasing share of their market are people like me, that is, old and blind :-D
sowbug 36 minutes ago [-]
When you're old enough to need reading glasses, larger is better.
I'd love a tiny phone. I just can't see it anymore.
tartoran 21 minutes ago [-]
It's probably a good idea to reduce phone computing to a minimum. Also the larger phone will likely damage your vision to need glasses eventually but there are other ergonomic factors at play. Do you want to hold your phone with two hands? Doesn't it get tiring for wrists to hold the phone in the position? I personally reduced phone usage but am still using a SE2022 which is a small phone. For reading I got a e ink reader and Im very happy with that.
layer8 30 minutes ago [-]
The Duo is also pretty heavy at 254 grams (almost 9 ounces). The Fold8 is only 201 grams.
clint 10 minutes ago [-]
People do NOT want smaller phones, that should be abundantly obvious.
JojoFatsani 30 minutes ago [-]
It's smaller though, until you unfold it
deaton 52 minutes ago [-]
The problem is people don't buy small phones. ASUS' Zenfone 9 and 10 were, in my opinion, basically perfect; small, someting I can actually hold in my non-athletic hands, but they didn't sell well at all, and ASUS abandoned the small phone market entirely with the Zenfone 11 Ultra.
FailMore 47 minutes ago [-]
I’m still stuck on my iPhone 12 mini because I like the size
dominotw 1 hours ago [-]
i do. i do reading and watching on my ipad mini. i can stop using that if i can get two in one device like this.
16 minutes ago [-]
getsprite 49 minutes ago [-]
I think mini phones will have a resurgence.
pier25 1 hours ago [-]
The size of the iPhone 16e is quite reasonable.
anonthrownaway 43 minutes ago [-]
>Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?
Wait until you get old enough to have to put readers on to use your devices like most older people do. And while I am yelling at the kids on my lawn, let me add every UI/UX person at apple - the idiotic and unnecessary choices they make for the sake of "cool design" infuriate me on a daily basis.
kadomony 25 minutes ago [-]
Agree. I miss the mini. My girlfriend still has hers and is reluctant to upgrade for the inflation in size that happens every generation. Pretty soon we'll all look stupid with tablet-sized phones hanging from our necks by a lanyard.
cschep 33 minutes ago [-]
Presumably they are a trillion dollar company because they know the precise size of phones that will sell to the most people. Hacker News is full of the 100 people (me included!) that love small phones but the general public LOVES their gigantic horrible loud phones :)
dgellow 8 minutes ago [-]
We are talking about how wide the phone is when folded. The company doesn’t know yet what exactly the market wants here, given it’s a new form factor for the apple audience
stackghost 29 minutes ago [-]
> But I have big hands, and I can't use my iphone 17 now without two hands.
Are you a woman by any chance? I am currently typing this one handed on an iPhone 17 pro (not the pro max) and don’t consider my hands to be particularly large, for a man, but my wife has to two hand her android which is roughly the same size
aczerepinski 19 minutes ago [-]
Keep in mind the dimensions of the iPhone 1 were based on the most comfortable shape and size they could come up with. They weren’t targeting women specifically.
LoganDark 1 hours ago [-]
The iPhone 18 Pro has the exact same dimensions as the iPhone 17 Pro. It's only the new iPhone Duo that's bigger.
nikanj 1 hours ago [-]
They released a number of small iphones over the years, and those always failed to reach meaningful sales numbers. Stated vs revealed preference I guess? People keep picking the larger model, so the models keep getting larger
cjonas 1 hours ago [-]
I don't follow iphone products, but if it's anything like android this is because they tend to be the lower end models and are missing the features that people really want (mainly a better camera/lens setup). The top of the line models are ALWAYS the bigger phones and if your going for something budget, then you're better off with the Chinese brands for value.
mbreese 51 minutes ago [-]
High quality camera lenses take space. That alone starts to dictate the size of the phone. Add in the desire for all day battery life, and we start talking more volume. And the fastest chips take more power, so again more battery. The best way to justify the increased size is with a bigger screen and now you’re stuck with a larger phone.
Or a smaller phone that is more expensive to produce. In which case, it won’t sell well regardless.
It’s easy to see how we got to this point of large phones, but it is not very clear how someone like Apple can make a significantly smaller phone and keep customers happy.
As you mentioned, other vendors probably will have better luck.
LoganDark 37 minutes ago [-]
Faster chips absolutely don't have to take more power. Apple's fastest chips tend to be some of their most power-efficient. It's sustained workload that takes power, and the faster chips just have a higher performance budget.
If small high-end models would sell, they’d be sold. It’s possible for a company to have a blind spot for a market segment, but not for an entire competitive market over many years.
dageshi 59 minutes ago [-]
I think it's because the people who want the smaller phone don't just want the smaller phone to the exclusion of everything else.
Some want a flagship model, some want a mid range, some entry level... all in small form factors and they won't compromise in order to settle for the one small model that's available.
sroussey 57 minutes ago [-]
You are describing me as well, but our market size is negligible compared to to 50% of the population that throws this thing in a purse.
torstenvl 42 minutes ago [-]
Flatly incorrect.
In 2020, the iPhone SE sold over 24 million units.
In 2022, sales of iPhone mini 13, iPhone mini 12, and iPhone SE made up 12% of total iPhone sales.
Thats despite intentionally nerfing every one of those models.
If you look at comparable phones, the iPhone 7 and 8 (4.7") outsold the iPhone 7 Plus and 8 Plus (5.5") by significant margins.
Nobody wants large phones.
greedo 18 minutes ago [-]
Since Apple doesn't release iPhone sales figures per model, I'm suspicious about your sales metrics.
wat10000 13 minutes ago [-]
> 12%
> Nobody wants large phones.
Be serious. 88% of buyers chose something they don’t want? Apple is saying, “actually we hate money, so we’re not going to make a model that people want to buy”?
Why is it so hard for people to accept that maybe their preference isn’t the common one?
29 minutes ago [-]
rconti 1 hours ago [-]
What is "meaningful"?
I was listening to the Accidental Tech Podcast last week and Marco said that the iPhone Air has lower penetration, after 1 year, than EACH of the 12 mini and 13 mini _currently_ have. Among a tech audience.
We just had to replace a family 13 mini and it sucks to have to go with a huge modern phone. Personally, I'd also prefer a mini if it had the best cameras.
nikanj 53 minutes ago [-]
Enough to justify major manufacturers to go through the trouble
Anechoic 41 minutes ago [-]
I know the general consensus is that the mini was cancelled for (relatively) low sales, but I wonder if that was due in part to the release of the SE? I got the SE 2 not because it was cheaper, but because it was smaller. At the time I was on a 2-3 year upgrade cycle, so when the 12 mini was released a couple of months later, I thought "cool, I'll upgrade to the 14 mini when it's released." Of course the mini was canceled after the 13, so I snatched up the 13 and will hold on to it until it crumbles in my hand.
nonethewiser 1 hours ago [-]
Same with phones with replaceable batteries.
drum55 1 hours ago [-]
Right, because it scratches some nostalgia thing that people have obtained osmotically. Nobody actually wants a replaceable battery that makes their phone vastly thicker and harder to waterproof, nobody wants phones that randomly catch fire because their OOPLMXC brand battery from amazon wasn’t up to snuff, nobody wants to be carrying a pocket full of extra batteries to swap all day. Devices with field replaceable batteries just sucked a lot more than people don’t remember. As much as people clamor online about how they want these things, given the option they will shy away from it because it doesn’t match the fantasy that’s been created about “what has been taken from us”.
eddieroger 1 hours ago [-]
And headphone jacks.
mattnewton 57 minutes ago [-]
anyone with a pile of dongles disagrees here. It was clearly broken to sell AirPods
nikanj 52 minutes ago [-]
By most Android vendors too?
LoganDark 1 hours ago [-]
I wish I could choose even thicker to get the Pro Max's battery life but with the Pro's ability to be held comfortably. You practically need two hands to take a screenshot with the Pro Max
Hamuko 47 minutes ago [-]
>Who wants bigger phones?
If we go by history, consumers. And when Apple last offered a smaller phone, consumers did not go for it.
jhatemyjob 56 minutes ago [-]
The reason they keep getting bigger is because Apple is rotting. When a tech company rots, it gets bloated. That bloat seeps into the products.
sgallant 1 hours ago [-]
totally agree with this
lightbendover 28 minutes ago [-]
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matthoiland 51 minutes ago [-]
I don't see it as a bigger phone.
It's a new thing.
Not a phone. Not a laptop. Not an iPad.
It's an agent terminal.
InsideOutSanta 1 hours ago [-]
The people at Microsoft who made the Surface Duo must be feeling pretty weird seeing this. The name, the aspect ratio, the way the UI works, the gestures for setting up split-screen, the "use it as a tiny laptop" mode... It's all things they pioneered.
Not that that's a bad thing. I absolutely loved the Surface Duo, it was my favorite phone until it stopped working correctly, and I hope other Android manufacturers take note of this, not just Samsung. It's just wild to see how similar this new Duo is to the original Duo.
samwillis 49 minutes ago [-]
Good design is inevitable.
In a completely clean room environment where a designer had never seen a folding phone, but had all the context of the iPhone and everything Apple had done, they would develop almost exactly the same design and features.
Designers have also been exploring the concept of foldable devices for literal decades, well before any reached the market. I have an industrial design and technology degree, we did a project in 2005 where we explored the designs around this, looking at the UI, the physical interaction, everything. My design had a similar aspect ratio and size, as I am sure half the student did my year and every other year they ran the project. (the iPhone Duo is about thousand times better than my design though!)
Thats not to say the Microsoft designers didn't do an incredible job, they did, but they were building on decades of design ideation from those that had experimented before them.
dgellow 6 minutes ago [-]
Microsoft did a really interesting job with the surface duo but it was a complete flop
Stevvo 22 minutes ago [-]
I find that story hard to believe. Your industrial design class designed folding iPhones 2 years before anyone had even seen the first iPhone?
Sounds like a leap. That said, at the time, the most popular phone in the world was a folding phone, the Motorola Razr.
kllrnohj 53 minutes ago [-]
> the "use it as a tiny laptop" mode... It's all things they pioneered.
This feature is also standard in existing folding phones. It's a pretty obvious feature tbh.
12 minutes ago [-]
LeoPanthera 39 minutes ago [-]
I thought the Pixel Fold didn't support this? No landscape keyboard?
rock_artist 45 minutes ago [-]
Microsoft also had Windows XP Tablets [1] and also WinCE/PocketPC many years before.
While the Duo is more subtle for some changes, it might show us the "new" Apple where the innovation comes from fine-tuning and getting a mature product to the market.
At least from their presentation, it looks like they sat on the fence and looked at pretty much any good or bad thing that happened during the past years.
Seeing some reviews on the Samsung Fold for example, mentioned the speakers feeling weird as the audio orientation is fixed to the speakers location. Those little details make a difference.
I really hope modern Apple would go back to the details and nuances.
> the "new" Apple where the innovation comes from fine-tuning
That's actually the old Apple. Before the iPhone (and after Jobs' return) it was their standard operation procedure: the iMac was a refined workstation, the AirPort was a refined WiFi router, the Time Machine was a refined NAS, the iPod was a refined MP3 player...
Even after the iPad, they mostly cranked out middling stuff like the airPods, all the way to the Vision. They would take whatever good idea was floating around the hardware market, give it a careful polish, and sell it at twice the price. And there is nothing wrong with that - constantly chasing revolutions is risky (see the Vision).
greedo 16 minutes ago [-]
I'll criticize Apple with the best of them, but AirPods being "middling?"
The difference here is Microsoft didn't have to take the hardware and pivot a new OS onto it at the last minute.
Remember... the Duo was supposed to be a cursed Windows 10-esque device. They brought on Movial to do a pivot to Android, then bought out the porting team in early 2024 to keep working on what they should have released in preparation for the Duo 2 (which is what they actually NEEDED to sell as an Android device at the time, but flopped in doing so).
I returned mine in late 2023. It wasn't the best experience and I was missing out on things like NFC dearly.
dgellow 4 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, Microsoft and missing hardware opportunities goes perfectly together
omidggmh 60 minutes ago [-]
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jedberg 1 hours ago [-]
One thing I love about metric paper is the beauty of the simplicity: When you fold it, it maintains its ratio. This is because it is 1:1.41, aka 1:sqrt(2)
When I saw that this new phone is 1:1.4, I instantly appreciated why it is that way. Metric paper wins again!
wpm 1 hours ago [-]
Of all the ISO standards I wish the US would adopt, ISO216 would be it for me, hands down. I recently needed to buy some A6 thermal paper, a size no one seems to offer anymore. And who cares! Why would they! I can just buy an A4 sheet and cut it in half twice, no fuss.
jedberg 1 hours ago [-]
Same here. I wish I could just use A4 paper, but usually when I put something on paper it is to share with others, who will not have an easy way to store or process it. It has to be a widely mandated switch.
Like only allow A* paper for government forms or something that would force everyone to switch their paper handling infrastructure to A*.
jonpurdy 1 hours ago [-]
As a reference point, I’ve stubbornly been using A4 paper in both USA and Canada for years now with governments and businesses. Never had any problem with IRS, passport agency, CRA refusing to accept them, or even mentioning it at all in person.
No problem buying it either, though it’s about 2x the price of letter. (I go through about 100-200 sheets per year mostly due to my daughter drawing on it.)
I don’t actually store any printed paper since anything gets scanned and shredded, so no comment on long term filing.
(Due to this experience I recently partially switched to B5 paper, which is a nice size compromise instead of A5 which would be too small. Anything A4 will print to it without scaling issues of course, just takes up a bit less space.)
ghostly_s 1 hours ago [-]
I think it would be pretty rare to find a paper "storage or processing " device that can accommodate letter but not A4.
fragmede 51 minutes ago [-]
Rare? A simple shipping cardboard box is sized to fit either A4 or letter sized piles of paper. Simple enough to change, but fairly common.
fragmede 54 minutes ago [-]
The US would need a president who is bullheaded enough to executive order a thing, like drop the penny or paper straws, but that also likes Europeans, so we might be waiting a while for a push from the US government. Printed media nerds, however, already know about benefits of A* and will switch as soon as they're in power and can spend the millions and millions of dollars it would cost their company to switch. Printed media is not as important as it once was, though, so the switch is really to start outputting PDFs as A4 and letting people print scale-to-fit when they actually need to print something you've sent them. Given how often my printer sees use, I doubt most people would notice if the PDFs you send them started being A4 instead of US letter.
dgellow 46 seconds ago [-]
My pockets don’t care much about ISO paper standards
bsimpson 1 hours ago [-]
The aspect ratio is the biggest problem with foldables.
The main reason I'd want a bigger display is for more immersive content like videos, which are typically 16:9. On a Pixel Fold, you have all the added complexity of the fold to make the videos you watch on the train 1cm taller.
The iPhone Duo unfolds to be the same height as the iPhone Pro Max. Sounds like it has the exact same problem - a bunch of added complexity without a practical use for it.
-----
> Touch ID is integrated into the side button
Another major flaw with the foldable form factor - it's hard to distinguish holding the device e.g. to pocket it and holding the device to use it. My foldable does the smartphone equivalent of butt-dialing way more often than any phone I've had before because it likes to unlock itself when I'm putting it in my pocket
tshaddox 1 minutes ago [-]
iPads have the same issue (to a lesser extent) if you're really looking for a device primarily for fullscreen 16:9 video. To be honest, the iPhone Duo (and iPads) are much more suited for multiple tiled apps and multi-column app layouts than they are for fullscreen 16:9 video.
drewg123 1 hours ago [-]
Great point.
For media consumption on the go, I use AR glasses. They are considerably cheaper than the upgrade from an 18Pro to a Duo, and give you an absolutely giant screen.
accrual 1 hours ago [-]
I enjoyed the subtle shade (presumably at Samsung) when they discussed existing foldables having an awkward size, and choosing their new ratios and the asymmetric form factor. One edge square, one edge rounded, so all edges are rounded when open.
mardef 1 hours ago [-]
It's literally the same size as the Z Fold 8. The Samsung is $100 cheaper too.
__aru 1 hours ago [-]
> I enjoyed the subtle shade (presumably at Samsung) when they discussed existing foldables having an awkward size
I don't think that was subtle shade...
That being said, short-and-wide foldables have been done before, they just never stuck around. Google should've stuck with it on their Pixel Fold, same for Oppo with the Find N.
Shame that the short-and-wide foldables took this long to become more mainstream, since to me it's been the obvious form factor ever since I tried the older Galaxy Folds.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
I suppose Google too. Basically every single one.
iknowstuff 1 hours ago [-]
Samsung’s choice of square corners makes more sense for this type of device.
jascha_eng 1 hours ago [-]
But it makes it really weird to type one handed I think.
phforms 1 hours ago [-]
I see a possible future where we have ultra thin devices that can be successively unfolded to larger formats based on this ratio, making size-based product variety obsolete. After that we get screen origami.
clarkmoody 1 hours ago [-]
Nearly impossible to actually buy A4 paper in the US
ceejayoz 54 minutes ago [-]
Amazon typically has it; https://www.amazon.com/Hammermill-Paper-letter-Bright-Sheets... by Friday. I occasionally need some for Australian paperwork and forget where I stashed it every time. Some day I'll open a closet and find 20 reams of the stuff with a page or two missing.
applicative 10 minutes ago [-]
You get it online. I keep it around to print booklets for certain community purposes. I can set latex for A5, design the pages, then print the A5 pdf to A4 paper booklet and Tex, Mac and Brother understand with zero further brain investment from me .. . Letterpaper is a nightmare
wpm 1 hours ago [-]
I can have 10 reams of Hammermill 20lb in A4 at my door in less than a week for less than $100.
ktallett 1 hours ago [-]
As a reading device that is great, but as a phone that is wide.
fragmede 1 hours ago [-]
Apple's submarine introduction of A* papersizes to the US.
jedberg 1 hours ago [-]
Oh man if this is what got the US to adopt metric paper I would be so happy.
noodlesUK 1 hours ago [-]
I really hope that in the coming years we will be able to get smaller phones back into the market. Apple compared this to the size of a passport. A passport seems even bigger than a normal iPhone, even when folded. A number of people (especially women with smaller hands) I know are holding onto their iPhone Minis for as long as possible. I’d love a phone that was roughly normal iphone sized when unfolded but was a flip phone à la Motorola razrs in years gone by. I wouldn’t even need a screen on the outside. I know it’s hard for a company like Apple to be able to market “less phone” as a good thing, and I know the iPhone mini didn’t do great commercially but there’s a small cohort of users clamoring to have something for them.
HaloZero 1 hours ago [-]
I think you’re out of luck. If Apple can’t sell the mini I don’t know who will enter the market.
asdff 1 hours ago [-]
They still sold millions of minis. Can't sell is about relative terms to the rest of their iphone sales. Against that it looks poor. Against mac pro sales probably looks amazing. Sold by any other company the phone would probably be considered a success and still in the lineup.
And really, poor sales are no excuse. How many macbook skus do they have that barely move when you go through all the permutations of config? I don't want to work it out but I'd guess there are something like 24 skus of macbook pro they are barely selling in comparison to iphone sales. What's another model iphone in 3 storage tiers?
fragmede 49 minutes ago [-]
Another phone model is massively more expensive compared to changing RAM or storage in, say, the macbook lineup.
asdff 25 minutes ago [-]
Yes, a challenge for a company as small as Apple.
jjice 18 minutes ago [-]
They can do it for sure, but they've deemed it's not worth it. I trust that they're in the business of making money when they feel it's worthwhile.
nxc18 1 hours ago [-]
Apple sold plenty of minis. It just wasn’t a blockbuster. They also didn’t sell many pluses. They also didn’t sell many Airs.
For context, Apple sold 6 million minis, most Android manufacturers (other than Samsung and Google) can only dream of that volume.
Apple can do it, they just choose not to. It’s not like AVP is a roaring sales success.
dyauspitr 57 minutes ago [-]
They came out with the AVP saying it was niche production and made very few of them to begin with. They expected not to sell very many of them.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
They could. I think it would be nice if they would choose to.
I doubt they lost money on it. I’m guessing they just “didn’t make enough“ and decided it would be more profitable to spend that money elsewhere.
I will say as a software developer it was rough getting things working on that tiny screen.
But I know people loved it. I have family members who did. And I totally get it. But it just doesn’t seem to be a big enough part of the market for any of the big players to care at all.
ncallaway 1 hours ago [-]
Yea, I'm in this boat. My 13 mini has been dropped a couple of times. The screen is still functional, but it's on its last legs.
I spent a few hours researching the other night on what replacement phone I'd buy, and.... the answer was a refurbished 13 mini.
moralestapia 59 minutes ago [-]
Same, 13 Mini is perfect. As soon as they release a similar form factor I'm all in.
coldpie 1 hours ago [-]
Have you looked at the new Motorola Razrs? They're great. 4" external display that is easy to use one-handed and can run any Android app (though some apps and websites struggle with a screen that small), and it unfolds into a phablet for when you want a huge display.
I believe Samsung has a new one with a similar form factor too, though I haven't looked into it.
layer8 1 hours ago [-]
The Razrs are significantly larger, heavier, and wider than the mini. And they add the complication of a flip phone. Not really comparable.
coldpie 49 minutes ago [-]
The comment I was replying to said:
> I’d love a phone that was roughly normal iphone sized when unfolded but was a flip phone à la Motorola razrs in years gone by.
So the Razr does seem pretty comparable to what they were requesting.
When I was 12-13 I started taking a steroidal inhaler which inhibited my growth, so my hands are literally the same size as when I was 13. (maybe slightly wider).
As such I have about the same finger length as the average woman, and when I used the iPhone 4S and 5S I had no problems, I was not able to comfortably use the 6 with one hand, and it came with that ugly camera bump, so I returned it and tried to go Samsung. (it was big, but the rounded edges helped a fair bit) - the software sucked.
I bit the bullet and went back to my 5S, and when the SE (2nd gen - shaped like the iPhone 5 but with beefed internals) rolled out it was a day 1 purchase for me.
Ever since then I've been looking for a phone -- the iPhone "Mini" was as large as the 6 which was too large (I did buy one though) -- I eventually bought an iPhone 15 pro, but honestly, I hate it. It is the heaviest thing I carry daily and it doesn't do anything more than my 5 did that i care about, and I can't comfortably operate it. I start really disliking mobile devices because of it- and the software is getting worse year on year too.
I'm getting serious fatigue from this, but the world has not only caught up to a mobile world, now many things actively expect/require you to have a modern smart phone, especially in Sweden.
devindotcom 1 hours ago [-]
same. my current SE 3 is starting to limp battery-wise and I'm about to switch to my backup one. Hoping they come to their senses before it wears out.
dmitrygr 58 minutes ago [-]
Apple Stores will happily swap the battery for you to a new Apple one for $79 IIRC
ksec 29 minutes ago [-]
I think the Duo looks great. And from the few hands on video I have seen I think the Apple presentation actually doesn't do it justice. There is no crease at all! [1]
On the note on this year's keynote. I can't be the only one who feels the whole vibe of the keynote changed. This isn't Tim Cook style keynote and John Ternus wasted no time to try and changed a few things already. I can't wait for John to further shake things up at Apple. But everything so far, all the small minor details suggest they are in the right direction.
Agreed. I am excited to see what changes appear. I did enjoy the "One more thing" + smirk bit too.
ivraatiems 1 hours ago [-]
$2,000 for a phone? Holy price point, Batman. No thanks.
I assume the people who would buy something like this have enough money not to care, and also would not care about the second part of my comment, because they want New Thing or use their phones enough for it to be useful.
I guess it might be the case that the only way to make the folding screen thing even remotely work is a very, very expensive manufacturing process. But as is often the case, I don't see how it's worth it?
I want my phones smaller and with Touch ID, not enormous and wrinkly.
rootusrootus 1 hours ago [-]
> $2,000 for a phone? Holy price point, Batman. No thanks.
Isn't that basically in line with the competition? Cheaper, even, than some of the competition?
mrweasel 1 hours ago [-]
$2800 here. What kinda of problem does that solve that's worth that kind of money? I'm seriously asking, because I can't figure it out. I can completely see buying an iPhone 18 Pro because you use it for work as an influencer or media creator, but this is close to twice the price and much less of a tool.
nozzlegear 1 hours ago [-]
I don't think luxury phones necessarily need to solve problems. They're just luxury phones, people who can afford them will buy them because they like them, not because they're solving problems.
asdff 56 minutes ago [-]
An influencer needing the latest iphone is also ridiculous when you think about it. They are running instagram and tiktok after all, not waiting for software to compile. They don't even need the latest and greatest camera because all their content is only going to be viewed on a palm sized screen.
dwaltrip 38 minutes ago [-]
Influencers want a device like that for status and branding. Technical specs are not a huge factor.
asdff 26 minutes ago [-]
Doesn't it hide in a giant pink jelly case with a pop socket anyhow?
torginus 33 minutes ago [-]
It's basically for people who want an iPhone and iPad, but in a device that's worse than both, while being more expensive than just buying one of each.
anonthrownaway 39 minutes ago [-]
>What kinda of problem does that solve that's worth that kind of money?
If it means don't have to put reading glasses on to use my phone, I'd pay a lot more...
rootusrootus 52 minutes ago [-]
I can't really answer that because I'm not the target for this particular model. I'd rather have a new Mini.
But I think this could be really appealing for a large number of normies who have a phone as their sole computing device.
ivraatiems 1 hours ago [-]
Good god, is it? My current phone is an iPhone SE 3rd Gen and I paid $250 for it on eBay.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
That’s not a brand new folding phone. Those start at $1900 MSRP from what I see. However, you can get them a few hundred cheaper. Some of them cost even more than Apple.
People have been saying “Oh my God, who would pay $600 for a phone“ for 20 years. Clearly there are such people.
embedding-shape 1 hours ago [-]
Most people don't actually realize they're paying $$$$ for their phone, as they get a phone with their mobile plan and they pay some monthly small sum for 24 months that lets them forget they'd never be able to afford it otherwise.
itsdesmond 1 hours ago [-]
New flagship product with lots of features is more expensive than old entry level product purchased used?!
spacedcowboy 1 hours ago [-]
have you considered that you might just not be the target market ? :)
sajithdilshan 1 hours ago [-]
Who exactly is the target market? Millionaires?
user43928 27 minutes ago [-]
As an engineer in a high cost of living location, you can buy this phone and still save some money in the same month.
However, maybe you can't buy a house there. For that you'd have to be a millionaire.
sajithdilshan 21 minutes ago [-]
But people like me cannot be the target market of Apple because that would be a very limited number of customers. Also even if I could afford it, I don’t see any use case for it so why would I even buy it?
MiSeRyDeee 1 hours ago [-]
Pretty sure Apple and other manufacturers do market research before pouring tons of resources into it.
sajithdilshan 1 hours ago [-]
I guess the time would tell. I’m pretty sure they did market research before the Apple Vision Pro and we all saw how it turned out
russelldjimmy 1 hours ago [-]
Not sure what expressing the cost of your current phone has to do with the discussion here, but I’m guessing this phone certainly isn’t for you. Some people choose to spend more on their phones, and some less.
ivraatiems 1 hours ago [-]
A price difference of 8x for what this offers seems crazy to me.
A $10,000 car and a $80,000 car are going to be markedly different. Same for a $100,000 house vs a $800,000 house.
This $2,000 phone does not seem 8 times better than my $250 phone.
Philpax 55 minutes ago [-]
Your phone does not offer more screen area on demand. That is genuinely useful for many people. Apparently, not you, but that's OK.
russelldjimmy 1 hours ago [-]
Your opinion is duly noted.
john_strinlai 1 hours ago [-]
256GB galaxy z fold8 is ~$1900
raffael_de 11 minutes ago [-]
to sell a phone for such a ridiculous price you need to make it as obvious as possible - a folded phone is pretty obvious - now people can buy it as a status symbol. what's the point of a status symbol if not everybody around you immediately recognizes the item as very expensive. there you go.
apparent 1 hours ago [-]
I might get one. I've been using a mini for years and am pretty much giving up on Apple ever making one again. The AI features finally seem worth an upgrade, and I don't love the size of the Air, standard iPhone, or Pro/Max models.
If I'm going to have to two-hand it, this is perhaps not the worst. Also, it might be more one-handable when closed than regular iPhones.
Is it very expensive? Yes, especially if you don't opt for the base storage (256 is not enough in the age of LLMs). But I've not upgraded in 5 years, so I've got budget to spare.
swat535 11 minutes ago [-]
Most people don't buy their phones, they just finance it through the phone carrier as an "upgrade".
The phone carriers then upsells their more expensive plans.
nozzlegear 1 hours ago [-]
> $2,000 for a phone?
> I assume the people who would buy something like this have enough money not to care, and also would not care about the second part of my comment, because they want New Thing or use their phones enough for it to be useful.
But what's the monthly price with Apple's upgrade program? I'd bet that's how most people will be buying it (me included, if I decide to get one).
sparkling 3 minutes ago [-]
$2800 in most of Europe
yeah, insane.
simonebrunozzi 1 hours ago [-]
You remind me of the (in)famous comment by Steve Ballmer when the iPhone was first introduced .
sajithdilshan 47 minutes ago [-]
The functionality and user experience provided by first iPhone compared to its peers at time completely justified its price.
In comparison iPhone Duo only offers a bigger screen and even limited functionality when it comes to camera if you compare it with iPhone 18 Pro.
wombat-man 27 minutes ago [-]
I try and usually succeed at using my phones for around 3 years, so it's not out of the question. Still have another year on my current one, I'll check out the next duo next year.
spike021 1 hours ago [-]
they're definitely hoping the people who can't afford it simply lease it like an expensive car.
criddell 1 hours ago [-]
Lots of people can afford it. If you keep the phone two years, that works out to less than $3 / day. The lease option is even less. They're going to sell or lease a lot of these.
I think it's going to be very interesting to see how well the sales for the Duo do in year two and three. I suspect sales will go up, but wouldn't be shocked if they drop.
spike021 33 minutes ago [-]
The number of people who buy junk food on credit they can't pay off is pretty much unfathomable at least in the USA. There are plenty of people for whom "$3 / day" is something they very realistically can't afford.
DoesntMatter22 52 minutes ago [-]
Yup. I mean I don’t have any need for this one, but in general, the cost it’s pretty low when you look at it from a monthly cost or a daily cost
nine_k 52 minutes ago [-]
Few pay it directly. It's paid in installments, subsidized by the carrier, traded-in for for an old but still okay phone, etc.
And those who want to boast, can of course buy for the full price. This is a non-zero share of the target market.
laserbeam 35 minutes ago [-]
> subsidized by the carrier
You misspelled “you’re overcharged for your mobile subscription and get a phone”.
kimos 46 minutes ago [-]
In Canada they range from $3000-$4800. Absolutely bonkers prices.
vulk 1 hours ago [-]
I am with you on this one, probably sales charts are up for foldable phones but I am not sure those people are reading the room correct. We want smaller devices more tactile if we wanted ipads we would get ipads.
derac 1 hours ago [-]
It's not a phone, it's a status symbol fashion object.
1-more 54 minutes ago [-]
Ok maybe it's that but it's definitely also a phone
r0fl 1 hours ago [-]
5 different people messaged me today saying they are pre ordering a duo
None of those people have ever messaged me about any other phone event ever
iknowstuff 1 hours ago [-]
I don’t see the problem with the pricing. It’s the most used gadget and its an iphone and ipad in one.
3pm 1 hours ago [-]
$700 premium for Duo compared to iPhone Pro Max 18. Exactly the price of iPad mini 256GB.
4dd3 1 hours ago [-]
I'd imagine its targeted in particular at producers - e.g. content producers.
There's enough buyers in the market.
Apocryphon 1 hours ago [-]
It has Touch ID
accrual 1 hours ago [-]
Yes, I think this is an artifact of the new under-display camera (at least on the inside). The official copy states:
> iPhone Duo uses Touch ID, which is integrated into the side button. This gives you an easy, secure, and consistent way to authenticate iPhone Duo, whether it’s closed or open.
Probably no way to do FaceID from under a display yet.
ivraatiems 1 hours ago [-]
It is also enormous and costs $2,000.
beAbU 1 hours ago [-]
Shutup and take my money!
/s
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
Why do you like that over Face ID?
lutoma 1 hours ago [-]
Not the person you're replying to, but Face ID just works much less reliably for me. I usually wear glasses, and when I get up in the morning and am not wearing them yet, it usually takes a number of tries before my phone will unlock. Sometimes it will also randomly not work in the middle of the day, maybe because of glares or something. Touch ID always just worked.
armadyl 33 minutes ago [-]
After jumping from an iPhone to a Pixel and back, the only thing I miss is fingerprint unlock which is way faster and more convenient than Face ID. You don’t need to adjust the phones position or anything if it’s too close to your face or in a position where it can’t scan your face.
mrweasel 1 hours ago [-]
I prefer TouchID because FaceID doesn't work when my phone is flat on the table and away from me. That's is how I use my phone most of the time, I don't really hold it up to my face.
retube 1 hours ago [-]
according to the blurb you can lease it $60/month
artisinal 1 hours ago [-]
Renting. It's $57 per month for 24 months and then you have to hand it in.
So you pay $1368 for the privilege of using the Duo for 2 years.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
Lease. You can buy it out at the predefined price at the end.
artisinal 1 hours ago [-]
English is not my first language, sorry. If you have a device that you pay a monthly fee for, but you can't keep it at the end of the contract, where I am from we call that renting.
Leasing is a financial construction where you actually own the product / property, with the bank having the option to claim it if you fail to pay.
netvl 1 hours ago [-]
This is not true, with leasing you don't own the product or property at all. Leasing is basically long-time rent. For example, when you lease a car, you don't own it - the leasing company does. In some cases, you can buy out the object at the end of the lease (like cars), in some cases you can't (like apartments).
> a financial construction where you actually own the product / property, with the bank having the option to claim it if you fail to pay.
This is called financing - basically, buying a thing with bank's money which they give you as a loan. For high-value purchases, there are often limitations on what you can do with the object, or requirements (like a requirement to have homeowner insurance for mortgages), but there are usually less restrictions compared to lease since you are the owner.
dyauspitr 1 hours ago [-]
It’s a lease, not rent. I don’t know the exact numbers on this but you can pay “rent” for two years and then pay like $300 (I don’t know what the right number is here) at the end to own it outright at that point. So at the end of the day you pay like $200 more than someone that buys it outright from the get go.
52 minutes ago [-]
nozzlegear 1 hours ago [-]
You get the choice to pay the remaining value of the phone and keep it, or enter a new "lease" agreement for a brand new phone at the end of the term. The formula is simple:
purchase fee = device list price – lease payments made – remaining discounts or trade-in credits.
If you're paying $1368 over 24 months, you could pay the remaining $632 after those 24 months and keep it with 0% interest.
artisinal 48 minutes ago [-]
So let's say you go to Hertz or Avis at the airport, you get a car for a month at $1700. The car has an MSRP of $40,000 and Hertz/Avis gives you the option to buy the car for $38,300 after you return it.
Is that leasing or renting in your country?
wpm 32 minutes ago [-]
Let's say you go to BMW or Lexus or Ford. You pay them $3000 and agree to pay them $500 a month for the next 3 years to use the car according to some conditions. The car is worth $60,000. You pay $21,000 over those three years. When you bring it back, they offer to let you buy it outright or to just hand it over to the dealer.
Is that leasing or renting in your country?
Is the difference between renting and leasing even meaningful? You chose a car rental agency for your example because it costs more per month to rent from a short-term rental agency. What is a lease but a long term loan? What difference does it make that I rent my apartment by signing a document called a "lease agreement"? Am I a renter? Or a leaser?
Renting/leasing is not automatically bad. The terms are what make one a good or a bad deal.
artisinal 20 minutes ago [-]
Is that $3000 a deposit that you get if you return it in good condition? In that case we would definitely call that renting.
> Is the difference between renting and leasing even meaningful?
Where I live, yes. If you lease you are the owner, with the financing company having the ability to seize it when you don't pay. If you rent you are not the owner, but are allowed to use it. Renting is a bit plebeian.
31 minutes ago [-]
ivraatiems 1 hours ago [-]
That's almost three of the phone I use daily per year.
Machado117 1 hours ago [-]
It’s $2250+tax for europoors
sajithdilshan 42 minutes ago [-]
Europoors is gonna be my favourite word from now on
dyauspitr 1 hours ago [-]
Honestly, that doesn’t seem all that crazy. I was actually expecting it to be closer to $3k
sajithdilshan 42 minutes ago [-]
Then it would most probably have had the fate of Apple Vision Pro
octernion 1 hours ago [-]
i love that we get these comments, even 20 years later. the phone costs what many (most? even?) folks on HN make in a day, after taxes.
applfanboysbgon 1 hours ago [-]
You think most folks on HN are making $500,000 after taxes (being charitable and assuming "in a day" means a working day)? Moreover, does one commenter have to represent most folks? If someone makes less than $500,000, are they not allowed to voice their lack of desire for a phone that is affordable for the alleged majority who do make $500,000?
dyauspitr 1 hours ago [-]
Come on, most people are not making 700k a year even on HN. Probably closer to $300k at the high end and there are a lot of Europeans on here so probably closer to $100k.
factorialboy 1 hours ago [-]
It's priced identical to the Samsung Fold 8.
The dimensions are also close.
From a visual aesthetics perspective, I prefer the square edges of the Samsung Fold 8.
Eager to check out the reviews of the software capabilities of the iPhone Duo.
And I'm not sure about the inner screen's selfie camera. The under-screen camera has failed in previous devices, especially for zoom calls, it was abysmal.
Excited for the nano texture displays though. For far too long, Samsung had beaten Apple with non-reflective displays.
dlcarrier 28 minutes ago [-]
Is an inner screen camera really worth it? There's already a camera cutout on the outer screen, plus you can open the phone and use the full-size camera with the outer screen, which results in much more flattering imagery than the wide-angle lenses selfie cameras use. It's like taking the difference between an under-screen selfie camera and a regular selfie camera, and applying that again.
It makes sense to have one screen for an as-large-as-possible uninterrupted display, and another for maximum utility.
I like that Samsung doesn't cut as much corner off as Apple, but ideally I'd like to find a manufacturer that doesn't cut corners at all. Even though I'm not likely to buy another iPhone product, I am excited that Apple doesn't cut holes in their interior display, because that'll probably get other manufacturers to do the same.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
I trust Apple likely did better, though they’ve made bad decisions before (Studio Display camera).
My biggest worry is the lack of Face ID. I love Face ID so much. I know I can do the Apple Watch unlock, but I don’t want to. I just want my phone to immediately look unlocked to me. and Face ID did that the vast majority of the time.
So I’m very curious to hear what the hands-on impressions from people are. Is the screen good? Can you notice or feel the crease? Is there anything else wrong? Is not having Face ID as annoying as I suspect?
At least there’s something really interesting this year. It’s more than just faster and better cameras, which is nice. And having actual aperture blades on the pro is great.
But this is more interesting.
factorialboy 1 hours ago [-]
I'm okay with the lack of face ID. Fingerprint unlock power button works perfectly well for me.
Did they mention MagSafe?
I'm not sure if they mentioned MagSafe for the iPhone Duo.
FWIW (and this is not directed to you specifically but anyone reading this) the police can use biometrics to compel you to open your phone without a warrant, but they cannot force you to give up your passcode.
This is partly why iPhones have a feature to disable biometric unlock by holding the lock + volume button (same gesture as emergency mode).
sqquima 1 hours ago [-]
Doesn't fingerprint mean that someone could knock you unconscious and unlock it with your finger? I don't know if I'd install my bank apps here.
ldargin 30 minutes ago [-]
That's possible, but unlock doesn't work after death.
Copernicron 19 minutes ago [-]
> It's priced identical to the Samsung Fold 8.
Not around here it isn't. The iPhone Duo starts at $2999 for the base storage. The Fold 8 is $2399 and even the Fold 8 Ultra is $2699. This only confirms that Apple has been steadily pricing themselves outside what I'm willing to spend. Can I afford it? Yes. Will I get $3k of value from it? No. This one is not for me at this price.
nickv 6 minutes ago [-]
Just want to check, do you mean American pricing? It starts at $1999 not $2999, which is surprisingly competitive with the Fold 8. (Of course, Samsung discounts the shit of the Fold in ways Apple never does).
juujian 1 hours ago [-]
I suspect there are plenty of people out there who habitually buy the most expensive of what Apple has to offer in any category. I guess Apple was leaving money on the table by not having anything in this price range in the first place.
layer8 1 hours ago [-]
> It's priced identical to the Samsung Fold 8.
The Fold8 is $1,899.99 (street price significantly lower as usual), the Duo is $1999.
factorialboy 1 hours ago [-]
That may be right, I was referring to list price, which is identical between Apple and Samsung. (I'm located in EU)
With Samsung, they're going to heavily discount it over the holiday season.
With Apple, the device is actually going to retain its value in the second hand market.
So there's this value argument that can swing both ways.
layer8 60 minutes ago [-]
The list price is different in the US. Apple may be trading off lower margins in the EU to keep it below the psychological 2000 mark.
AndroTux 1 hours ago [-]
The under-screen camera essentially doesn't matter. For the three times you're in a meeting with it, it'll hold. For everything else, you'll use the primary camera and the front screen.
cma 6 minutes ago [-]
Lots of people use facetime for personal calls rather than zoom meetings.
factorialboy 1 hours ago [-]
Yeah, but I'm not really sure.
There's a perfectly good use case of using this device unfolded with their kickstand powered folio case and a portable keyboard — While getting some zoom calls and productivity / work done.
nikanj 1 hours ago [-]
Apple usually gets heat for not being the first to a feature, even when they’re the first with an implementation that’s actually good, not just a gimmick
throwaway13337 46 minutes ago [-]
It's so close to the "her" wallet thing that the main character pulls out to look at photos.
It's just too big, and too metal.
The form factor is good. I hope things move this direction.
More broadly, it's interesting that the movie has a beautiful future aesthetic that influenced tech most in the recent years. The muted colors with natural materials mixed with ubiquitous tech that was in the background of a human in a humane world where people mostly walk places. I feel like the AI company aesthetic barrowed a lot from that movie. Right down to their office furniture.
Now we just need to make a phone OS to put something like that on that isn't locked down. Forget the year of desktop linux. I am waiting for the year of phone linux. Android doesn't count.
mark_l_watson 1 hours ago [-]
I am 75, and have a ton of computer gear. I can imagine myself as an old man later in life, not wanting to do any programming, and just wanting a single digital device like a future version of this product. Let’s see what Apple has available in 10 years.
Dlemlo 58 minutes ago [-]
Its a 2200$ device which does the same thing as a 500$ tablet or any other option.
If people would at least use the power they buy... :|
dgellow 2 minutes ago [-]
We (the HN audience) have disposable income for that type of thing, I don’t see the issue with being a casual user of an expensive device
daseiner1 50 minutes ago [-]
i've been hearing this critique of new apple products for about two decades now and inevitably:
- apple's product "does the same thing" as [device sold at 25% of the cost]
AND
- apple's product "does the thing" at a level of polish that's in an entirely different league from every competitor.
siri is the great exception here. jesus christ what a piece of shit
Dlemlo 18 minutes ago [-]
Thats not the point. There is a difference between someone spending a lot of money on compute and never use it vs. doing the same thing.
Its like buying a porsch and driving it always at 100km only.
eldaisfish 1 minutes ago [-]
a better analogy would be a toyota hybrid, which is basically the same as any other hybrid car, except for the one issue of reliability.
So yes, a toyota hybrid and a chevrolet hybrid should be exactly the same, but they are not, the price difference reflects it, as does the number of twenty year old toyota hybrids still on the road.
wombat-man 30 minutes ago [-]
There used to be a pretty big gap between iPhone and android in terms of polish. that gap keeps narrowing, but it is still there for sure.
toyg 21 minutes ago [-]
Is there, though? The last few iOS releases have been pretty classless and inconsistent, imho.
MYEUHD 35 minutes ago [-]
The $500 tablet could be an Apple iPad
In fact iPads start at $429
greedo 12 minutes ago [-]
You sound like ESR ranting about how Apple was doomed by Android back when the iPhone came out. He would rant and rant every time about how there was no conceivable way that Apple could survive. Somehow, Apple has managed to survive by the skin of it's teeth.../s
1234letshaveatw 46 minutes ago [-]
Nah, let's just throw a new web framework at them that consumes all their newfound computing capacity. Always leave em' wanting more
roundabout-host 23 minutes ago [-]
And liquid ass.
FpUser 1 hours ago [-]
in 10 years any phone should be able to wirelessly stream it to any monitor / tv and plenty of those will be everywhere
mywittyname 50 minutes ago [-]
We can do this now, but I don't think the user experience makes it worth it compared to casting. Bandwidth limitations require lower frame rates and responsiveness, which is fine for video but bad for interactive apps (most phones are native 120+hz + VRR_. But re-encoding video is (processor & battery life) expensive and probably lower quality than the original stream.
People who do this a lot probably just use a DV adapter (maybe it just works with USB-C, but I haven't tried it) for native apps, or casting for streaming video.
9dev 51 minutes ago [-]
Right — I would have hoped a while ago already that we transcend past the notion of an endpoint device. A tablet, a laptop, or a phone should all just be entry points to access my one OS instance.
You could think this a bit further still, and have all kinds of devices offer an interface to nearby endpoints with a display or controls, establishing connectivity automatically.
reenorap 49 minutes ago [-]
Apple does this right now. I use AirPlay to extend one laptop into an older laptop so I can have 2 displays when I’m away from home
varjag 1 hours ago [-]
I mean you kinda can do that now.
FpUser 49 minutes ago [-]
>"kinda" - is a keyword. experience is abysmal, especially when it works but true desktop paradigm is not supported
static_motion 22 minutes ago [-]
I find Dex to be decent enough. Its biggest limitation is that it runs Android apps, but for doing stuff in a browser on a big screen and multitasking with some other apps that are tolerable to use that way it's pretty good.
electriclove 57 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
switchbak 51 minutes ago [-]
I presume you're trying to be friendly here, but your first couple sentences come off a bit harsh.
I like that he's well into his life and still enjoying writing (or authoring, or whatever we call it now) code, and looks forward to a nice long life. No one lives forever, and I'm sure he's aware of that.
lvl256 1 hours ago [-]
I take it this is a joke? I am in my 50s and don’t see myself staring at screens for too long, let alone coding.
Edit: I don’t know of anyone 75 still coding outside of retired professors here and there. I am not trying to be an ageist. I just don’t think I will be physically capable when I am 75.
ericmay 1 hours ago [-]
It doesn't seem like a joke?
FpUser 58 minutes ago [-]
>"I am in my 50s and don’t see myself staring at screens for too long, let alone coding."
I am 65 and still enjoy software development (not coding in particular) but decomposing business idea into software architecture and functionality. Decomposing is the part I really enjoy, the rest is a necessity but with AI that rest takes way less of my time than it used to.
I do not work for someone though. I develop products for clients or for my own business, was doing it all my life and was doing it from my own office for last 26 years. Not overworked either. Have enough time to enjoy life. Al in all very happy
minimaxir 1 hours ago [-]
I'll give John Ternus credit: the demos are interesting and fun.
Maybe not $2k fun + inherent risk with buying the first generation of an Apple product particularly after the Apple Vision Pro, but still.
allenu 1 hours ago [-]
I agree. The demos were great. They really showed off how things you already do today are "better" on two screens. This is in contrast to the Vision Pro where the demos were of things that were neat but I can't see myself needing (watching 3D captures, watching a big virtual cinema screen).
I think this will be a hit, but the $2k is a bit much for me to even consider getting one. Obviously they'll likely drop that price over time.
josteink 1 hours ago [-]
It’s the exact same price point as the Samsung Z Fold 8, which is this phone’s exact competitor.
$2k is a lot to ask, but it answers the market 100% on “I’d like a Samsung Fold 8, but as an iPhone”.
cma 3 minutes ago [-]
It's a shame Samsung dropped stylus support after the 6, but I guess the 8 is a good bit lighter weight than the duo.
dlcarrier 21 minutes ago [-]
The Apple Vision Pro was a rare early entry into a field. Usually they wait until the technology is established and the userbase is just starting to take off, as is currently the case with folding phone displays.
Samsung has already worked out the major kinks for folding displays, over dozens of products used by multiple phone manufacturers including themselves, and Android has worked out how to handle the various use cases between the outer screen and inner screen, when closed, open, or partially open, so Apple can pull from the current state of the art and launch with a more fully developed product, as they usually did before the Apple Vision Pro.
Maxion 1 hours ago [-]
I find it sad that they're doing it all pre-recorded.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
Yeah, I wish they would go back to live, or at least parts of it live. They did a great job during the pandemic but it has lost some humanity and authenticity.
behnamoh 1 hours ago [-]
They're still as cringe as they've been for years; with fake hand movements and marketing-pilled bs postures.
wpm 1 hours ago [-]
The marketing pilled postures seem to have been toned down a bit.
I wish they would stop changing speakers every other sentence though. I swear drone cameras were the worst thing to happen to video, I'm gettin seasick over here!
gyomu 23 minutes ago [-]
> I wish they would stop changing speakers every other sentence though
Apple employees get to claim very little ownership over their work (even in the context of a large tech company), so having all those speaker slots is one way they can provide that ego boost that is so crucial for long term employee morale & retention
nozzlegear 1 hours ago [-]
> with fake hand movements
I don't get this complaint. People talk with their hands, it'd look more fake if they just stood there all stiff and wooden.
basisword 1 hours ago [-]
I wish these posts came with a demo video of you doing it better.
1 hours ago [-]
a_e_k 50 minutes ago [-]
$2000!
I really don't get why people spend so much on flagship phones! I tend to aim for $200 Motos for me and my family, and it feels like it's a 90%+ solution at a tenth of the price. I can still browse the web, text with people, make calls, listen to music, and take pictures. They still last for years, and if they get dropped and the screen cracks, it just means its time to upgrade. What am I missing here?
SatvikBeri 24 minutes ago [-]
I started paying for phones with really good cameras once I had kids and I wanted to take lots of pictures with them. I definitely notice the quality difference in random, off-the-cuff photos (which is the vast majority), though if I have time to set up a bit, cheaper phones produce pictures that look the same to me.
tcmart14 30 minutes ago [-]
Because 7 years from now, my iPhone will still have the latest OS and security updates. I also have the budget iPhone 16e. I also haven't broken a phone since I was 16. Not like cheap androids that are often abandonware by the device maker before they even hit the shelves.
It sucks. I wish that would change, but that is what made me switch from Android to iPhone after 12 years on Android. At the time, even flagship androids were lucky to get 2 years of OS updates and security fixes. Apparently Google and Samsung are going to support their devices longer, but I'll wait till they have a track record. But ultimately, an iPhone for me does come out cheaper over the lifetime of a device than cycling through cheap androids every 2 years.
matroxmemories 42 minutes ago [-]
People spend $30k extra to buy an Audi A6 instead of a Honda Accord daily.
So spending $1800 extra on a nice experience is still better than $30k extra.
BryantD 47 minutes ago [-]
I'm not getting a first generation of these things but if I could replace my iPad and my iPhone with this, the economics start to make more sense. Not for everyone, of course, but it'd be within my budget for replacing both devices.
I'm not sure the unfolded version will be big enough to truly replace my iPad Pro, though.
theokrueger 40 minutes ago [-]
you're missing blue bubbles, computational photography, and FOMO. re: nothing actually important.
many people have a phone as their only device though, so great screens and cameras and everything else are easily rationalized behind the managable cost of carrier plan's indirect loan.
brandon272 37 minutes ago [-]
There is widespread crippling phone addiction in our society. That is one reason why people want premium flagship features. If you are going to stare at your phone for 3+ hours a day, spending more to get the latest and greatest makes sense.
ndarray 23 minutes ago [-]
Seriously though, for 2k you can get a good gaming PC even in today's market.
danielbln 40 minutes ago [-]
Well, this one folds, so you get a much larger screen surface that still fits in your pocket. And $200 won't get you that from any vendor. And while the low end phones have gotten amazingly good, a flag ship will still have a much better camera, better screen, better battery etc. If that's worth the price is a decision everyone has to make for themselves.
Sidenote, I've not had a single one of my smartphones crack a screen since 2008 when I got my first smartphone, take that for what it's worth.
tedd4u 18 minutes ago [-]
And the Apple case is $129.
cyberpunk 42 minutes ago [-]
The camera, mostly.
sbdaman 1 hours ago [-]
There is going to be a lot of snark in the comments but this thing is genuinely beautiful lol
password54321 1 hours ago [-]
There has always been snark but I swear it has been really excessive lately.
s3r3nity 59 minutes ago [-]
Lot of Chinese bot farms / AI agents
avidruntime 55 minutes ago [-]
There's also just a growing number of the simple contrarian perspective mixed with the growing "anything new is bad" cultural lens.
bigyabai 23 minutes ago [-]
Tim Cook burned goodwill kissing Trump's ass like Elon and Zuck did.
The old "Apple is different!" attitude was replaced with a police state.
thoughtpalette 53 minutes ago [-]
I'm not the market for it (I don't watch youtube, etc on phone), but I've seen some Samsung folds IRL and they are pretty amazing for video content.
This is a gorgeous design.
Dlemlo 57 minutes ago [-]
Its brutally expensive and probably doesn't fit in a pocket well.
Do you expect hn being an uncritical apple fanclub?
threetonesun 12 minutes ago [-]
Both could be said of the iPhone Pro as well, which continues to sell and sell well. It's obvious to me there's a market for this stuff I'm not part of, same as the Vision Pro, and that's fine.
Dlemlo 5 minutes ago [-]
You can still critisis it and not just accept free advertising from apple on hn.
leptons 56 minutes ago [-]
Beauty is subjective. That's not snark, that's reality. Nothing is "genuinely beautiful". You can't just call something beautiful and have everyone agree that it is in fact "beautiful". It's the most overused word in marketing.
sbdaman 6 minutes ago [-]
>Beauty is subjective.
Yes.
>Nothing is "genuinely beautiful".
Not sure.
>You can't just call something beautiful
Yes I can.
>and have everyone agree that it is in fact "beautiful".
Of course not.
arjie 1 hours ago [-]
Genuinely bonkers. I never thought they’d do this. Just seems so like a Xiaomi Xi7 Super Max Fold Z or something. But I have to say that when I used one of those Android folding phones it was quite cool to end up with a big screen in your pocket.
Just didn’t feel it was an Appleish product.
joshstrange 1 hours ago [-]
$2K starting price is rough. I’ve upgraded my iPhone every year since my first phone, the 3GS. It’s one of a few “splurge”-type things I allow myself. It’s a hobby and just fun to play with the new hotness. This year might break the cycle.
I don’t care for the 18 Pro colors, I still love my orange 17 Pro, and I’m not sold on the Duo (functionality or price).
I might still end up with a Duo but I’m very much on the fence. I’ll tell myself it’s for development/testing reasons, or just to play with the newest offering but I’m just not sure. I worry this will suffer from the same lack of developer interest as the AVP did. Yes, it’s very different from the AVP and SwiftUI will almost certainly make this process easier but I’m still not sure.
alwillis 1 hours ago [-]
> I worry this will suffer from the same lack of developer interest as the AVP did
Pretty sure that developer interest is not to be a problem. The Duo will sell more units in a month (or less) than every AVP ever sold.
Apple told developers in June at WWDC to not assume fixed screen sizes. Well-written apps will work on any screen size thanks to Apple's APIs.
Some apps will need to be tweaked to take advantage of some Duo features no doubt, but I suspect that's not going to be a deal breaker.
getsprite 50 minutes ago [-]
Agree - this is going to have pretty wide adoption.
alwillis 43 minutes ago [-]
To get close to the same functionality as the Duo, you'd buy an iPhone 18 Pro ($1199) plus an iPad mini ($599); that gets you to $1,798. If you want more storage than the entry level iPhone 18 Pro or iPad mini, you're going to surpass $2000 pretty quickly.
newman314 1 hours ago [-]
You could do the leasing route if you upgrade every year. Might pinch less.
beAbU 1 hours ago [-]
If leasing a fucking phone isn't a sign of the times then I don't know what is.
nozzlegear 1 hours ago [-]
People have been leasing phones since at least the mid naughties, they just did it via their carrier. I distinctly remember standing in the Alltel store in 2006-ish, before it got gobbled up by ATT, and wondering if I could afford the extra $15/mo that the new Nokia candybar phone would run me. The only thing that's new is that Apple is offering it directly.
beAbU 34 minutes ago [-]
Leasing, as in long term renting, required to give it back after the lease period, in near perfect condition, or face a penalty?
Or financing, paying it off over a fixed term, after which you own it outright?
The latter, I understand. And I'm also familiar with it.
But the former, I find hard to believe. Although, I'm not from the US. Are you telling me people rented nokia bricks in the aughts?
nozzlegear 19 minutes ago [-]
You could and still can do both from your carrier, it's pretty standard. In my experience, it's somewhat uncommon for people to actually buy their phones outright unless you make a lot of money (like the folks who tend to frequent HN). Every two years, my wife and I would sign up for a new 24-month contract, which would include two new phones. After those 24 months, we could keep paying off the remainder of the phones and keep them, or we could return them and start a new contract with new phones.
> Are you telling me people rented nokia bricks in the aughts?
Myself and my family did, for sure. My parents made me pay my own phone bill too, so I spent a long time in the Alltel shop staring at the different phones and probably annoying the clerk.
reaperducer 24 minutes ago [-]
If leasing a fucking phone isn't a sign of the times then I don't know what is.
People have been leasing and renting phones since the 1930's. I guess you missed out on the Ma Bell century.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
I like that blue though.
basisword 1 hours ago [-]
I don’t think it’ll face the developer interest problem. Devs go where the money is and consumers seem to love foldables.
fragmede 1 hours ago [-]
It's high, but Apple's financing arm has it at $84/month, which is a bit more stomachable if you really want it.
Hamuko 1 hours ago [-]
I don't know, $1999 seems almost kinda reasonable considering how much an iPhone Pro costs and how utterly fucked the current memory prices are.
Someone1234 56 minutes ago [-]
It actually looks really nice; and I'd consider myself their target demographic conceptually. My last iPhone was a Pro for context.
But at a $2K starting price, plus likely another $200 for the storage size they really expect people to purchase, in this economy, it is so far outside of my price range it is dead to me.
Which is to say: Cool tech, but I've already dismissed it as something I want evaluate for my next phone just based on price alone.
That's maybe the real death-nail for folding phones: Price hasn't yet shifted to allow them to be mass market rather than enthusiast phones.
user43928 8 minutes ago [-]
In my location I can order the Z Fold 8 for cheaper than the 18 Pro Max, and I can see in the price history that it has also been available for cheaper than the regular 18 Pro.
If I wouldn't at the moment focus on developing iOS apps, the Z Fold 8 would be very tempting.
maitola 59 minutes ago [-]
Steve Jobs is folding in his grave.
bottlepalm 17 minutes ago [-]
This. He would have never approved a foldable phone, the iPhone Air, or the Vision Pro. Apple is back to throwing shit at the wall like they were in the 90s. Directionless. Visionless.
audunw 2 minutes ago [-]
Apple threw plenty of shit at the wall when Jobs ran the ship. The hockey puck mouse and the Mac Cube was under Jobs. The first Apple TV. That was pretty much what the Vision Pro is: a side project to test the waters and get some experience with a new format. It’s just that the Vision Pro by its nature is a much more expensive and ambitious side project.
All the three product you mentioned is exactly the kind of things Steve Jobs did. Don’t make him into this mythological flawless visionary.
ishtanbul 12 minutes ago [-]
He launched the macbook air. Iphone air seems right up his alley.
MPSimmons 1 hours ago [-]
Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?
I don't mind folding. I think it's cool, and a nice way to get a useful space. But I have big hands, and I can't use my iphone 17 now without two hands. This is even wider before unfolding.
Who wants bigger phones? Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?
I want smaller phones. The width of the iPhone 4 was nearly perfect imo. If they would take modern display technology with approximately that width and expand it to 16:9, I think it would kill, even if it were relatively underpowered compared to the modern top of the line.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
Lots of people. There’s a reason folding phones have been a big story for years.
Maybe they only sell to 5% of users but they sell and at top prices, meaning more possible profit.
And you can’t grow the iPhone at the current sizes. Everyone who once wants at one of those sizes already has one. You either have to convince them to upgrade or switch, and those are both hard.
However, if you give them a choice of something they haven’t had before, it’s way easier. Get the people who wanted to fold and went to android and would like to come back. Get the people who have a max and want something bigger. Get the people with an iPhone 13 who are simply curious enough to do the upgrade, but otherwise would’ve stood still.
Gotta sell.
ex-aws-dude 58 minutes ago [-]
How many times do HN users have to be told they are not the majority?
If you look at phone sales Pro Max out-sells the regular Pro
Regular people like big phones
pjerem 1 hours ago [-]
Oh wow.
That looks extremely boring and unexciting. It doesn’t look like it’s Apple, it looks like Xiaoco Fold Z Duo 16.
daseiner1 57 minutes ago [-]
*Xiaomi
apple is always "late to the party" and regularly takes existing tech, polishes it to a high standard of UX, and introduces a new paradigm for consumer tech products. if xiaomi has ever done that please let me know.
not to mention that chinese consumer goods companies are largely siloed to the east anyways
pjerem 11 minutes ago [-]
I agree but that’s still my point.
The thing looks totally unpolished. The corners are horrible, the UX looks subpar.
It’s the first time I feel like Apple totally rushed a new product without any real vision.
*Xiaoco, I invented this ref.
ActionHank 1 hours ago [-]
If pasteurized-vanilla-milk-toast-paste was a product.
michelb 33 minutes ago [-]
All folding phones will converge to this.
dinkleberg 19 minutes ago [-]
It looks quite well done, though I'm definitely not in the target demographic for this. I'm happy with my high-end desktop devices and shittier mobile devices. The last thing I want is for my phone to be more capable and incentivize me to use it more lol. I use mine to call, text, listen to music, check email, use the map, track workouts, and basic web browsing. I don't need more than that.
RistrettoMike 13 minutes ago [-]
I'm in the exact same boat. I already gave Apple a bunch of money for something with a hinge this summer, and it's a Mac that can actually run a terminal, a proper desktop browser, or even something wacky like x86 games through a compatibility layer, etc.
No way I prioritize that kind of cash on something that only runs mobile-tier software.
ClarityJones 46 minutes ago [-]
I see some iPhone Pro Max buyers getting this simply because they paid around $1200 last year, then after trade-in ($885 for a 17PM), they could get into the Duo for $1,200.
If someone had that amount of disposable income last year, they might have it to throw at another upgrade this year.
Yhippa 1 hours ago [-]
I've had two folding phones and I am not going back until the issues are resolved. Here were my problems:
1. After a while, I think dust would inevitably get in the hinges and wouldn't fold flat. I've seen demos in stores of newer gen Samsung foldable phones and it looks like those wouldn't fold flat
2. The inner screen protector eventually lifted off the screen, causing catastrophic damage, and requiring repair (under warranty thankfully)
3. The aspect ratios were weird. I ended up using native app sizes, making the extra space kind of a waste
One thing I did like about the Samsung foldables was that when they were folded and using the front screen, I finally had a phone that fit my smaller hands! It was nice being able to use my thumb to reach the other side of the screen. Will be interesting to see how this works out because it looks decidedly wider.
__aru 55 minutes ago [-]
> After a while, I think dust would inevitably get in the hinges and wouldn't fold flat. I've seen demos in stores of newer gen Samsung foldable phones and it looks like those wouldn't fold flat
For your first point, the iPhone duo is rated IP 68 Dust and Water protection. Literally none of Samsung's book foldables so far have achieved this IP rating.
lbreakjai 6 minutes ago [-]
It looks beautiful, but it’s definitely not something I’d buy in its first generation. I'd really want to wait and see how it fares after a year of real life usage.
Notably, the inner screen has a nano‑texture finish (which Apple normally upcharges significantly for), which implies it is glass.
torgoguys 9 minutes ago [-]
Very strange how in the middle of a specs page for the device they a pitch there suggesting you get an Apple Card (formatted on the spec page as if it was actually a spec of this device) before continuing on with the rest of the specs/features.
I haven't looked, but am guessing the probably exists on other Apple specs pages.
guyzero 38 minutes ago [-]
in the keynote they explicitly said it was a polymer. Apple materials technology is really good, but it's not "folding glass" good.
doctoboggan 1 hours ago [-]
Just a reminder to everyone, always buy the second version of any new product category, even from Apple. The first duo will look primitive in a few refresh cycles. It does look really cool though!
twalichiewicz 56 minutes ago [-]
Considering how many comments I regularly see on Hacker News from people who still love their M1 MacBooks, I’d say that’s not a particularly strong maxim.
morbicer 8 minutes ago [-]
Yeah although my M4 is more powerful I somehow don't perceive it much and it's so heavy and gets hot. My aging M1 is still snappy for most workloads, the battery holds well, it's light. Only thing I resent is the stupid touch bar instead of proper F keys.
But I'd say it's the exception. In general it's better to wait for later generation.
hbogert 12 minutes ago [-]
Ah yes the m1 air for example which couldn't drive 2 external screens
1123581321 1 hours ago [-]
I get the sensibility of that advice but isn't that the case no matter when you buy it? I mean, they announced a nice iPhone Pro, optimized over multiple generations, and then immediately made it look primitive with the Duo. :)
doctoboggan 1 hours ago [-]
v1 to v2 is the biggest leap, and each leap after that is smaller and smaller. Just look at the difference between the 17 pro and 18 pro.
1123581321 7 minutes ago [-]
I'm drawing a different conclusion than you about that upgrade. Sorry! I definitely understand your advice; it's especially the best option when you are financially risk-adverse or pessimistic about technology but need to participate.
batmenace 1 hours ago [-]
Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say I hope I'll at least get to update this comment down the line while holding that gorgeous looking phone in my hand
jval43 59 minutes ago [-]
Especially Apple. Buying a first gen Apple product hasn't been great since like 1999 at least. Very few exceptions.
gizajob 1 hours ago [-]
*especially from Apple. I live by this maxim.
teekert 4 minutes ago [-]
Looking forward to the first broken screens, and Apple's official reply:
"You're folding it wrong."
thesuitonym 1 hours ago [-]
We keep putting more powerful chips into phones, and giving them bigger screens, but we never turn them into useful computers. Why is this?
fudged71 17 minutes ago [-]
That seems to be entirely the purpose of this device. Instead of just a larger display, it's meant to provide a "second monitor" for multitasking or more context.
With terminal emulators, tailscale, local and remote agents, there's never been so much computing capability accessible from your pocket before.
bottlepalm 13 minutes ago [-]
Apple's lack of vision and fear of innovation. Jobs is gone. We're back to 90s Apple. Dumb ideas become dumb products, and no one has the balls to say, No.
jddj 1 hours ago [-]
You can get something quite useable these days by plugging a pixel into a USB dock with a monitor and a keyboard + mouse
armadyl 30 minutes ago [-]
Android Desktop mode looks so promising, it jus needs to support higher resolutions/refresh rates but this is probably a side effect of at least the Pixel having weaker performance versus other flagships.
Although I can’t wait for the more powerful Motorolas with GOS to release. Maybe that’d be enough to make a phone my sole computing device.
beAbU 59 minutes ago [-]
The moment apple ship MacOS on their iPads, sales for their macbooks will all but collapse.
GuinansEyebrows 1 hours ago [-]
Artificial limitations open many new avenues for new and exciting revenue streams.
aboringusername 59 minutes ago [-]
This is the biggest disappointment, imagine running a full blown "Ubuntu Touch" that gives you the freedom of Linux with full root access. This is the biggest failure of legislation in the 21st century so far that has enabled a strict Android/iOS duopoly.
I sincerely hope one day we can free these hardware devices from the shakles of their software and run anything that's possible.
Until such a time iOS devices are strictly off limits until at least a grapheneOS can run iOS at a minimum.
GeekyBear 1 hours ago [-]
After four years of watching the JerryRigEverything YouTube channel snap Google's foldable phones in half at the same spot along the antenna lines, I'm looking forward to seeing how well this holds up.
Something this expensive should not be that fragile year after year.
tills13 1 hours ago [-]
new foldables are surprisingly strong along the spine. Not impossible to snap or damage but would support being accidentally sat on without it being catastrophic, for example.
GeekyBear 1 hours ago [-]
> new foldables are surprisingly strong along the spine
Have you seen the video in question from two weeks ago?
With some of what they showed, I wish they never separated iOS and iPadOS. The duo seems to be bringing more of the iPad features and if they could position this as one device to replace both (and the price point sure reflects that) it could be interesting.
But without that, I don't see the use for myself. Though I also rock a 13" iPad Pro so even with that it would be a hard sell to replace both.
I still am not sold on the entire idea of a foldable, there is some interesting things here and I will be interested to see how they position it over the next few generations.
LoganDark 23 minutes ago [-]
I wish that too. Too many convenience features on both sides that are accidentally or intentionally not making it over, even when they would apply to both. I wish it had to be an explicit decision to lock functionality to only iPad or iPhone, rather than it having to be an explicit decision to make functionality available to both. Make the more likely decision the default.
jedberg 1 hours ago [-]
My wife's first question:
Will this fit in a woman's hand?
hackyhacky 1 hours ago [-]
Formally specified: there exists some human woman, in whose hand this will fit.
Machado117 1 hours ago [-]
Can this woman play Rachmaninoff?
asdff 52 minutes ago [-]
An olympic water polo goalie perhaps
twalichiewicz 1 hours ago [-]
It was clever that they used the reference point of a passport. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complain about passports being unwieldy.
OkGoDoIt 1 hours ago [-]
Personally I find passports slightly too large to comfortably fit in my pants pocket, and a passport is definitely thinner than this phone. Whenever I travel and have to have my passport in my pants pocket I’m always a bit uncomfortable about it, I usually prefer to keep it in my backpack or somewhere else. If you’re carrying this in a purse then it sounds great. The passport aspect ratio is pretty awesome on phones, I tried one shaped like this at a Chinese phone store last year and enjoyed it. But shoving a $2000 device the size of a thick passport into my pocket on a daily basis feels like a bad idea.
Insanity 1 hours ago [-]
You hold your passport a few times a year, for maybe a few minutes. Probably less than 1 hour total per year. Many people will 5x that usage-time in just a day.
twalichiewicz 1 hours ago [-]
[dead]
jedberg 1 hours ago [-]
People don't try to type on their passport though.
accrual 1 hours ago [-]
They briefly showed the Duo opened partway like a laptop, and even had a keyboard displayed on the lower portion. Maybe it would be kind of like a smaller GPD Mini but with touchscreen instead of physical keys.
twalichiewicz 1 hours ago [-]
True, but passports are one of the few readable objects I can think of that regularly get used in both vertical and horizontal orientations.
asdff 50 minutes ago [-]
Passport is also thinner than a pencil, not rigid, and will fold a little around your thigh in a tight pocket.
jerlam 1 hours ago [-]
It will save people a lot of time because they don't have to go to the Apple store, they can use their own passport to discover that the phone is still too big in a different dimension to use with one hand.
wpm 1 hours ago [-]
Just like the iPod's "deck of cards".
micromacrofoot 1 hours ago [-]
you don't carry your passport in your pocket every day
fragmede 1 hours ago [-]
They are so unwieldy that the US has a passport card because the passport is too big for frequent travellers. I also will complain about how my passport's ID page is the second, not the first page, so you open the passport, and then always have to flip to the second page (unless you use a tiny bit of tape).
selectodude 1 hours ago [-]
The passport card is almost exclusively for people who go back and forth to Canada and want to keep it in their wallet. Nobody is complaining about the size of a passport.
tekla 1 hours ago [-]
What. No. A passport card is not the same as a passport book in its capabilities.
sqquima 1 hours ago [-]
I was actually looking forward to a smaller iPhone. To have less addictive screen time.
It looks like the Air was a once-thing. I don't see them releasing an e-ink phone either.
Maybe the answer lies in only wearing an Ultra watch if it becomes powerful enough and can function independently of a phone.
OZYMANDIASAK 1 hours ago [-]
I'm thinking of doing the same thing but I actually think the current Apple watch is already powerful enough.
Daily life is ok with it but most of the issues come from banking and governmental apps.
I wish society was not as keen on making everything go through smartphones nowadays.
gizajob 1 hours ago [-]
I feel like it’s actually designed more with women in mind. Instagram influencing type women who will think nothing of spending $150 a month on it.
artisinal 1 hours ago [-]
Perhaps with a PopSocket.
tamimio 1 hours ago [-]
Most women I knew with shattered screens had relatively large phones (max, plus, etc.), and the few of them who listened to my advice and got smaller phones, never broke the screens. Either girls over estimate their hands size (I guess compared to some YouTuber they see), or maybe bigger screens is just a status, or something else, but most girls have large phones for some reason.
asdff 46 minutes ago [-]
If they mostly doomscroll tiktok they tend to want bigger screens
Firaxus 1 hours ago [-]
I’m a little disappointed with how big it looks folded, I was hoping for a mini that could unfold…
The dimensions closed seems like a weird form factor. I'd be interested in a folding iPhone (horizontal or vertical), but this seems off.
micromacrofoot 1 hours ago [-]
or pocket
no
lucky_cloud 1 hours ago [-]
There aren't many phones that fit in the tiny pockets that plague women's clothing. The clothing/fashion industry is to blame on that count.
emacdona 4 minutes ago [-]
I used to be one of those people that would countdown the hours to Apple's launch events and tune in for the live stream. I was never someone who updated my iPhone every year, but I _did_ update my iPhone every two years.
Now, I can't even remember what version iPhone I have. I just remember that I bought it after my last one stopped working (after maybe 5 or 6 years of having it). I won't lie: part of the reason is that I'm just getting older and care less about these things.
But a bigger part is that new tech just isn't fun anymore...
I _hate_ using my current iPhone for surfing the web... because I can't run the full suite of ad-blocking software that I run on my computer (Firefox + uBlock, sponsor block; Little Snitch with tons of block lists). I hate that all that ad-blocking software is necessary... but that's a totally different rant.
I _hate_ that I'm being asked to spend $2000 on a device that will, by default, surveil me 24x7. I can spend HOURS trying to disable every feature designed to track me... and still not be certain that somewhere in the TOS that I've still given permission for them to vacuum up SOME piece of information about me.
And I _hate_ that Apple is now an ad company.
And yes, I acknowledge that with respect to privacy, Apple is STILL the less bad choice (compared to Android).
And yes, I acknowledge that there are other options. In fact, when this iPhone dies, I plan on getting a Pixel and putting GrapheneOS on it.
I guess what I'm saying is... I hope that there are more people like me out there... who are sick of paying thousands of dollars for devices that, instead of serving me, serve those who want to collect my information so they can sell me stuff.
edit: "because I can't" instead of "because can't"
pier25 57 minutes ago [-]
Foldables seem like Homer's car to me. It's a worse phone and a worse tablet all in one.
I was quite surprised to see the under display camera. Wasn't expecting that.
Other than that, looks like there are some nice Duo specific features on iOS. $1999 is also surprising given that news outlets were reporting up to $2500. Plus it's price competitive with other foldables in the market.
nk_kolja 1 hours ago [-]
Reminds me of the windows fold phone. ‘‘Twas the best of phones, but out of my price range at the time. Now I have nostalgia of windows phone, the best phone os that never was.
Even though I like the form factor I doubt I’d cash out 2k for it, seems like a waste just to spend more time on another screen.
samgranieri 20 minutes ago [-]
I'll pass on this. Less moving parts appeals to me. I'm sure the HW and SW engineers at Apple did a great job, but, i like the current form factor.
Philip-J-Fry 1 hours ago [-]
The folding/unfolding animation is one of the coolest I've seen from a foldable. So slick.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
That impressed me too. Be if those “Apple touches” of yore. I kind of wonder how well it works in person, but it’s nice that it’s there at all.
mortsnort 43 minutes ago [-]
I guess we'll find out of there's much of a market for $2k phones. For the price one could get a regular iPhone and a decent iPad.
dionian 42 minutes ago [-]
id rather buy both in a single device that i can carry in my pocket.
rplnt 19 minutes ago [-]
And have worse of both.
ElijahLynn 1 hours ago [-]
I've been out of the loop on foldable phones, and this is question is not related to specifically the iPhone Duo. How does it work that it doesn't show a crease in the middle? What's the breakthrough technology there? Or is there a visible crease?
RattlesnakeJake 1 hours ago [-]
We'll find out when the hands-on reviews start coming in. Right now, we're seeing Apple's carefully-curated press photos & renderings
SparkyMcUnicorn 1 hours ago [-]
I'll watch Marques when I want to get caught up on stuff like this, because he usually has a minimal fluff video on the subject.
On the Samsung Flip you can definitely see a crease—it's not super annoying but it's definitely there
dawnerd 53 minutes ago [-]
And you’ll definitely feel it. Which is almost as annoying as seeing it.
ghostly_s 1 hours ago [-]
the lcd is flexible, it doesn't fold in a sharp crease but uses a complicated hinge to roll it into a loose bend when closed. But maintaining a "crease-free" appearance after many use cycles seems to be a major challenge in this market.
hkpack 1 hours ago [-]
On other phones it is visible, here we’ll see soon.
well_ackshually 1 hours ago [-]
There will inevitably be a crease after a few weeks/months, as every folding phone has had. Apple is relying on Samsung's display tech, and Apple doesn't have better solutions than Samsung.
The reason it doesn't actively crease is because it's not like a piece of paper you press on to fold: the screen "rounds" itself, and as long as it doesn't go past a breakpoint (which is what the body of the phone prevents), it'll restore.
tedd4u 16 minutes ago [-]
Probably true but they might have a better hinge, i.e. crease takes longer to appear due to superior folded geometry.
w10-1 1 hours ago [-]
What about left-handed people? Will the controls line up on the left?
owldown 48 minutes ago [-]
I'm right-handed but I always keep my phone in my left pocket and use it with my left hand (keys have always been in my right pocket). I'm also pretty curious about the answer to this.
spiralpolitik 1 hours ago [-]
Definitely a v1 product but it's an interesting device. Apple is rarely first to market, but they definitely produce the device that indicates the point where there is a market.
You can also see where they are going. In a couple of years, assuming it sells well there will be a Pro model with a 3x fold and better camera system. I'm guessing to make in thinner they will have to drop USB-C and come up with a flat charging/data connector. The EU won't like that.
The final interesting thing is this is the first Apple product that I can think of since the iPod era that they've released a product that will cannibalize another Apple product. If you were looking at getting a high end iPad Mini this replaces both phone and tablet.
__aru 49 minutes ago [-]
> Apple is rarely first to market, but they definitely produce the device that indicates the point where there is a market.
There's been a proven market for years already, but it's been less obvious in Western markets. In East Asian markets, foldables have had a very sizable market presence, especially in China.
There's other trends that are less obvious to US and western markets, such as phone crossbody straps (which are also very big in East Asia).
jumploops 1 hours ago [-]
It felt very "un-Apple" when they called it a foldable phone _before_ revealing it.
The folding part is the thing the tech journalists say; done right, it shouldn't matter whether it's foldable or not.
Bigger screen, pencil support, nano-glass, etc. The foldable part is obvious, why say it?
Krastan 53 minutes ago [-]
I'm surprised they weren't able to figure out face id and had to go back to touch id.
amiga-workbench 4 minutes ago [-]
They would have had to make an even larger section of the OLED translucent and traded internal space for an IR dot projector and a second camera beside the main one.
It would have made an even larger splotch of the screen look odd.
Game_Ender 36 minutes ago [-]
Apple often aggressively cuts scope like this on first generation products and then brings back the features in the future updates. Maybe it’s to provide a reason to upgrade, maybe it’s just good project management but iPhone Duo 2 having “dual FaceID” sounds like something Apple would do.
Look at the low end iPhone’s slowing getting better screens, TouchID, and then FaceID.
MattDamonSpace 8 minutes ago [-]
Phone’s already expensive enough and unless they have inner and outer faceid then they need touchid anyway
jonathanlb 19 minutes ago [-]
My hope is that Apple getting in on this design will influence eBook makers to jump on the bandwagon.
It took me a while to figure out I had to click "Explore" to get to the specs, so I'm saving you the trouble.
As long as I'm griping about the web site... Apple, when you introduce a phone with a new and different form factor, please just tell me the dimensions straightaway. This one is shorter and wider than most phones. Is it too wide to fit in my pocket? I need the dimensions to answer that question.
user43928 20 minutes ago [-]
It's a bit disappointing that it's 50g heavier than the Z Fold 8, and similar to the Pixel 9 Pro fold in weight and thickness, at 254 g / 5.2 mm / 11.3 mm.
Actually kindof awesome! ...but when I saw the phone call at the end my mind immediately went back to "Taco-Talkin' w/ the Nokia N-Gage"! => https://sidetalkin.com/original/
corvad 1 hours ago [-]
Looking back now it was quite ahead of its time.
kvuj 1 hours ago [-]
The main problems from that Duo was that Microsoft didn't believe in it.
This lead them to use a garbage CPU and support it for something like 2 years.
Apple has the balls to keep updating the vision pro even after it flopped and it will probably get 7 years.
1 hours ago [-]
testfrequency 54 minutes ago [-]
Still use mine!
I will say it was a pain in the ass to open and answer calls though when you were busy doing things.
sccxy 1 hours ago [-]
August 12, 2020
lvl256 1 hours ago [-]
$1999 is ridiculous.
Edit: Wow, I didn’t know Samsung foldable was priced similarly. It’s a lot of money to pay for something inherently fragile.
jjice 1 hours ago [-]
While I won't pay it, it seems pretty comparable to other flagship foldable from Google and Samsung.
raphinou 1 hours ago [-]
Doesn't make it less ridiculous, and that price for the other brands isn't less ridiculous either.
chrocni380 1 hours ago [-]
> $1999 is ridiculous.
Plenty of people on HN earn that much money in a single day after tax.
prewett 1 hours ago [-]
That's about $675k/year, assuming a 35% tax rate. I think that is a small fraction of HN users, but more to the point, if your argument is that the phone is not expensive if you make over $500k/year, I'm not sure that is a compelling argument...
alistairSH 1 hours ago [-]
It's also more than the cost of an iPhone Pro + a MacBook Neo (or several other combinations).
I'm just not seeing the value proposition for a $2000 phone. I already can't comfortably hold or type single-handed on the normal-sized Pro.
devnulll 1 hours ago [-]
I base many of my purchases on how many hours per week I use them.
In terms of usage hours, my mobile phone comes out near the top. This makes the price almost immaterial.
nofunsir 53 minutes ago [-]
your underwear must be expensive!
artisinal 1 hours ago [-]
For most people this can replace an iPhone Pro, a MacBook Neo and their iPad.
For those people, $2000 is a good price for a device that does all their digital work.
wpm 1 hours ago [-]
The correct price comparison is between an iPhone Pro and an iPad Mini, in the US that would be $1199 + $599. So for an extra $200 you don't have to carry and charge 2 devices. Not a terrible pitch.
alistairSH 53 minutes ago [-]
Sure, I guess, but I don't have a Mini, or any tablet for that matter. I used to and found the form factor didn't meet my needs. I'm happier with a phone and a laptop.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
I think there were rumors going even higher since Apple is so often a premium priced product.
Matching their top competitor in price is a good look.
They could’ve absolutely floored everyone if it had been $1500, but there’s no way that’s possible, at least having margins anywhere near what Apple likes.
alwillis 52 minutes ago [-]
We'll have to see but it has a titanium frame with Ceramic shield front and back.
Obviously Apple knew where other foldable phones fell short; they clearly planned to overcome those shortcomings.
Kirby64 1 hours ago [-]
The retail price of the equivalent Samsung phone is $1900 (1899) - or $2100 for their 'Ultra' phone. Seems just in line to me.
rawgabbit 1 hours ago [-]
My first thought is what happens when I drop a $1999 device and break it.
hankbond 1 hours ago [-]
At some point these phones are powerful enough that we need to be able go get a desktop experience that can run macOS. Why is a 600 dollar neo more capable for productivity than a 2000 dollar iphone with a much beefier chip?
spiralpolitik 1 hours ago [-]
This is Apple's Achilles heel.
If another company could release something like the Duo that seamlessly switches between phone, tablet, and desktop experience and make it Apple quality then Apple are in trouble. The technology is all there since the days of Ubuntu Touch.
Sadly I don't think there is a company in a position to build such a device that could compete.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
I don’t think Apple will ever do it.
I personally would like to see the phones behave like iPads when connected to screens and mice and such. I don’t need it to pretend to be a full Mac.
But we all know they’re on the same OS at this point. iOS and iPadOS are completely identical, and this only makes it more obvious.
armadyl 28 minutes ago [-]
This is what I want. If the Duo did something like convert into an iPadOS-like environment I’d buy it day one and sell my non-fold iPhone and iPad.
But I don’t want macOS on an iPhone/iPad. If I wanted a device with poorer hardware security that ran an OS with a fundamentally weaker security model I’d just buy a MacBook and be done with it.
1 hours ago [-]
1 hours ago [-]
zuInnp 47 minutes ago [-]
I tried the Samsung one with the same form factor in a store , and that is pretty nice.
As someone traveling via plane or train, I can easily see myself using this and not carrying my tablet with me.
However, just too expensive for my taste. I get a lot of new batteries for my current 12 pro for that price .
TSiege 57 minutes ago [-]
Foldable gimmicks aside the new materials and components sound really cool. How they have the screen layers that move freely seems innovative. The new ceramic they’re using for the outer shell/screen sounds great and I hope we see it in more of their devices:
“Ceramic Shield 2 on the outer display reduces glare and provides 3x better scratch resistance than the previous generation”
vonStackelberg 24 minutes ago [-]
I have not much to say about the device, probably great. But the image selection for showcasing the camera improvements seems odd. As a non US person, i have the impression it tries to tailor its branding the most cliche type of peer groups. The result seems quite ridiculous
mentos 1 hours ago [-]
I’m curious to see how using Windows Remote Desktop iOS App will feel at this size if I can be productive or not.
My previous thought was to use XReal glasses with my existing iPhone but that’s not realistic in an office environment.
improgrammer007 1 hours ago [-]
I love my iPhone SE 3rd gen. Perfect form factor. Neither too big nor too small to be able to do useful things on it. My hands and arms hurt using large phones. I am so used to using one hand to operate phones. My previous was iPhone SE 1st gen. Why do people need such a large phone in day to day life usage? Carry an iPad/tablet if you really need one.
ggcr 56 minutes ago [-]
> I am so used to using one hand to operate phones.
I even forgot about this. God damn it, I enjoyed the SE so much because of this.
dionian 42 minutes ago [-]
or buy a product that is small and does both things
fudged71 45 minutes ago [-]
A 2.39:1 cinematic movie occupies about 16.13 in² on Duo and 16.26 in² on 18 Pro Max
Game_Ender 25 minutes ago [-]
iPhone Duo 2 with working dual FaceID cameras will be a headline feature for sure.
alfanick 34 minutes ago [-]
It's made for viewing 70mm IMAX /s
3pm 1 hours ago [-]
Duo screen: 7.6" vs iPad mini: 8.3". Duo will support Apple Pencil later. I wonder if many people with iPhone+iPad combination can now replace it with one device.
DamnInteresting 52 minutes ago [-]
In the FAQ it says "Yes. iPhone Duo will work with Apple Pencil (USB-C). Coming later this year."
It kinda sounds like it's a new model of the Apple Pencil coming soon (rather than support coming soon), and older Pencil and Pencil Pros will not work at all. Which, if true, boo.
ktallett 1 hours ago [-]
I never trust the later with Apple. Too often have they failed to deliver. Why release this without the obvious benefit?
dzonga 13 minutes ago [-]
for a first foldable iteration - apple has hit it out the park compared to other foldables on the market.
when the google & Samsung ones first came out they were plagued with problems.
but I think apple should've also had a foldable in the form of a razr ultra since they already have an iPhone air.
bee_rider 1 minutes ago [-]
Usually Apple waits for other companies to work out the low-hanging-fruit problems, so they don’t have to release a device with a bunch of low-hanging-fruit mistakes. As a result, you shouldn’t grade them on the “first iteration” scale. They intentionally waited for other companies to work out the details and now their device gets to compete with the developed offerings of those companies.
It still looks quite decent though.
rudyp_dev 58 minutes ago [-]
Really want information about if there is a left-handed software setting for the new side-oriented buttons
accrual 23 minutes ago [-]
Yes, I also was curious about left-handed users watching the demo, it seems very right-hand oriented at this time. Maybe there will be a toggle in Settings to switch some of the UI around, kind of like how Apple Watch asks which wrist it's wrapped around.
sroussey 53 minutes ago [-]
Right handed women (which is a giant market) are going to love this thing.
reaperducer 45 minutes ago [-]
They do it for the watch, so it should be on their radar.
halflife 1 hours ago [-]
It’s marked ip68, I wonder how they made the hinge water and dust proof
altern8 14 minutes ago [-]
I feel like the aspect ratio is a lot better than existing phones. It's basically a tablet.
vulk 1 hours ago [-]
I might be a minority but I never had interested in this foldable phone trend where you get just a bigger screen. I can't even consider dual display smartphone as a foldable phone. The benchmark for a foldable phone was Motorola Razr V3. I am not sure where they are going they really need some new people with some fresh ideas and vision. Sooner or later someone is going to start eating their lunch.
officeplant 1 hours ago [-]
Apple: Every one else does folding wrong!
Also Apple: We've done it the exact way Samsung and Microsoft did it! We even used the same Duo name as Microsoft!
The transition effect from closed to open is so chef's kiss; the little things that set Apple apart.
xutopia 57 minutes ago [-]
I get excited about this but that's because I want this... not because I need it.
What I actually need might be less of an iPhone and more of a nano than a duo. Something small and portable that doesn't make me spend every spare second on the phone.
artmanja111 37 minutes ago [-]
I’m not the target market for this phone at all, but I have to wonder how many people are going to take the 256 GB option for $1,999. It feels like that option only exists so they could show a starting price under $2,000.
The 512 GB version for $2,199 seems like option you’d really want as a minimum, and then you’d need to add AppleCare on top of that. Pricey!
neovive 56 minutes ago [-]
I wonder if there's a practical way to protect the phone with a case, given that it folds and the dual screen is a big selling point. It feels like one accidental drop on concrete or a ceramic floor would cause a lot of damage.
meetpateltech 50 minutes ago [-]
Anyone noticed the headline has two "Hello"s for a phone that folds in two? John Ternus' first tweet was just "hello" and he opened the event the same way.
This has to be on purpose.
b3ing 49 minutes ago [-]
I wonder if you can hook it up to a monitor and use it like macOS. That would be the killer phone and killer laptop, then you just need to connect a mouse in and display or tv and work wherever. But I doubt Apple will ever do that, I don’t think they are bold enough to cannibalize their laptops.
Imagine being able to hook up a small slab to a keyboard or mouse Bluetooth then connect to a monitor, tablet or hotel tv, like the Samsung Dex can do. And run full laptop/desktop applications. One can dream
44 minutes ago [-]
layer8 1 hours ago [-]
This has some interesting features, but also a number of questionable decisions. The inner front camera placement is awkward for non-camera use, because despite being under-display won’t be completely invisible (as some shots in the presentation show). The on-screen unfolding transition is cringy and distracting. Apps and multitasking behaving differently on the inner screen depending on whether the hinge is flat or bent creates complexity and trade-offs, like when bending then phone so that it can stand on its own, or lie on an uneven surface. On the front screen, reserving the edge for special controls reduces the thumb reach for general content (like the app icons on the home screen).
k__ 23 minutes ago [-]
Nice form factor.
I have a Samsung Fold 4. The front screen is too narrow and the folding screen doesn't open all the way anymore.
Not what I expected from a 1400€ phone.
nkotov 1 hours ago [-]
It was interesting to see no shots of the iPhone Duo being used as an actual phone and I think because it probably will look silly.
That being said, this is the device I always wanted. Something between an iPad and iPhone.
saaaaaam 1 hours ago [-]
Does anyone use their phone “like an actual phone” anymore, as in held to their ear?
Most people I see out and about are either using face time, or inexplicably speaking in speakerphone and holding the flat, face up, with the bottom of the phone towards to their mouth in a weird awkward way, or they are using headphones, wired or wireless.
an0malous 4 minutes ago [-]
Calling people is my least favorite feature of phones
SJMG 57 minutes ago [-]
Wow coming apple pencil support! That will be pretty awesome.
cloud8421 26 minutes ago [-]
I thought so as well, but where do you put it when the phone is folded?
accrual 20 minutes ago [-]
Time for pocket protectors to return! Geeks unite!
42 minutes ago [-]
jerf 1 hours ago [-]
So, just in general, I've been seeing more and more foldable phones like this. How well are they holding up now? Having Apple use one seems to be at least somewhat of a vote of confidence that the tech has reached some level of acceptable maturity, so I assume "not trash", but I don't know how good that represents. I'm a compulsive fiddler so I'm not really in the market for a phone I can fiddle to death without even consciously realizing it, but I'm at least curious if the tech is reaching the point where one might expect a more normal user to casually expect them to last 2+ years with normal use.
MBCook 1 hours ago [-]
I know the early ones were really bad. My impression is I’ve stopped hearing about them failing all the time, so I assume they’ve gotten decent.
rudyp_dev 1 hours ago [-]
I'm a little worried about the buttons moving up along the side, since I use my phone with my left hand... Hopefully there is more information about whether the OS supports moving the controls to the left, or even keeping them at the bottom.
TYPE_FASTER 21 minutes ago [-]
Huh, I kinda like the form factor of the folded Duo...don't even need to unfold it...
igmn 1 hours ago [-]
Worse in most ways than every other iPhone, more expensive, gets permanently (sometimes deathly) damaged by fingernails, keys, sand, plastic and literally anything that's harder than about a fingernail. All the supposedly unique usecases can be resolved by a $1 kickstand, a $50 speaker, or a $500 iPad plus a non-foldable phone. You can get a whole MacBook too. So, no thanks.
percentcer 1 hours ago [-]
Despite what the marketing material would have you believe you can always see the fold. Even when it's fully open. Folding screens have been a solution in search of problem for like a decade now
azan_ 57 minutes ago [-]
> Folding screens have been a solution in search of problem for like a decade now
The problem is I want to have small phone that can be expanded to have large screen when needed, glad I’ve solved this decade long conundrum!
nailuj 1 hours ago [-]
I like folding phones that go from half to full size. Fits in my pocket and I still get a big screen when I want.
wpm 1 hours ago [-]
How do you know? Have you seen a Duo?
nofunsir 46 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
mhh__ 1 hours ago [-]
The folding phones are genuinely interesting although all the cool demos I've seen people do irl have been quite reliant on android being quite liberal as to what software you can run
yunwal 17 minutes ago [-]
Anyone understand how cases will work for this?
joenot443 1 hours ago [-]
Did anybody want this?
zitterbewegung 1 hours ago [-]
Yes, with a much bigger screen I can definitely see this making me more productive and it is in between an iPad that getting through even minimal productivity tasks would work and bigger screens help a lot. Even though $1999 only gives you 256GB at least you get that low of a price point. Would have to see it in person though especially about the crease and the camera(s). (EDIT) I have a Clicks power keyboard which I can use with this. Seems like I should clarify that I can use this where a regular laptop can't be used. And since more people are interested in what I can use email, calendar and codex / Claude code (in fact Claude codr is why I have the clicks power keyboard)
joenot443 1 hours ago [-]
Nice! I like this answer. If I was someone who worked on the go more often I could probably see the appeal.
Like what exact productivity tasks do you do on a phone for 2k USD that you cannot do as an example on a MacBook neo?
wpm 1 hours ago [-]
The ones I want to do on my iPhone.
This is usually because my iPhone dings more, and is connected to an always on network connection + phone network, so it's often the point of first-contact with any specific task/response/conversation/work unless I am sitting at my desk at home already.
And while I am someone who does take a laptop and an iPad with them in a backpack at lot of the time, that's not all the time. I'm not walking around the grocery store with a MacBook anything propped up on my cart. I'm not hanging from a strap on a bus or train with a laptop in my hands. And using a laptop on the couch usually makes my wrists hurt.
asdff 43 minutes ago [-]
Here I am wondering why you are doing work while also grocery shopping.
arecsu 8 minutes ago [-]
This is the real philosophical deep take of it all, are we using these devices, or are these devices using us?
sajithdilshan 1 hours ago [-]
But what exactly productive tasks that you need the bigger screen? Because for any productive task I can think of that requires a bigger screen I would need a keyboard and a touchpad/mouse as well.
wpm 44 minutes ago [-]
I'm someone who often thinks of things to cook while grocery shopping. Oh theres such-and-such on sale, oooh they started carrying X, what the hell is that what can I use that in, that sort of thing.
When that happens I'll often want to look up recipes for that stuff right there in the store. The web has gone to trash. The mobile web is even worse. Adblockers can only help so much, its just that everyone dumbs everything down for small screens. So its very frustrating trying to process some search results and find a decent recipe for some-such and find the rest of the ingredients I need to buy. This is a low time committment task, I need to do this in a busy grocery store, and not block the part of the shelves I parked myself in front of for too long. I mean, I guess I could go home and use my desktop, but odds are I'll just forget. And no, I'm not gonna ask AI for a recipe.
On a screen that big, using Orion and locking it to "always show me desktop mode", I could more comfortably browse and look up these things than I can on my Pro Max sized phone now. The inner screen has a higher resolution than an iPad Mini.
Another example, and it was one they showed only very briefly in the video: I just want a bigger keyboard damnit. They showed an app taking up the top "half" of the inner screen, a keyboard taking up the lower half, with the phone folded at a 110ish degree angle. It's a Sidekick with a touch keyboard. So any time I have some serious typing to do (Slack message regarding something that requires a prompt response but isn't just a few words, not that hard to imagine other examples), that bigger screen is going to give me a keyboard that is much easier to type on than a Pro Max can, because the keys are going to be sized much larger and will not need to rely on the on-device typing guesstimator as much (and that thing is dumb as hell). God, being able to ssh into something and actually have some room for all of the extra keys that make working in a terminal easier, what a world!
Having a real computer for any of these tasks would of course be the ideal, but as portable as those have gotten, they still don't hold a candle to something that fits in my pocket and has a software stack that reliably lets me interact with it in a meaningful way without having to make room for a keyboard and a trackpad.
sajithdilshan 33 minutes ago [-]
That’s a very niche use case and gonna be a very expensive recipes look up. Also I’m not sure the desktop mode of a website actually look better on a Duo because the text and links would be quite small to navigate with a finger and most probably it would by default get the website optimised for iPad/tablet view.
As for the bigger keyboard, I have tried that in iPad mini. It’s horrible. Because the distance between the keys is too far in that case and it actually slows down your typing. I can imagine the same in Duo when you use one half of it as the full keyboard
zitterbewegung 1 hours ago [-]
You can do a productivity task where you can't just have a MacBook Neo out.
sajithdilshan 1 hours ago [-]
Like what? Do you do your office or schools work in your phones?
MisterMunchkin 1 hours ago [-]
You can’t carry a neo in your pocket or use it on the bus
sajithdilshan 1 hours ago [-]
But that’s what I’m curious about, like what productive tasks do you do on a bus? I usually read something or scroll instagram and for neither of tasks I need a bigger screen
azan_ 55 minutes ago [-]
It’s much nicer to use terminal on larger screens.
sajithdilshan 53 minutes ago [-]
I know that, but how many people use terminals on their phones?
billti 1 hours ago [-]
I was hoping I didn't. But after watching the event, I kinda do.
I have to hand it to them, they added some really nice touches to the OS for the new form factor. Seems almost like the best of an iPhone and a iPad Mini.
Still not sure I want something that bulky, and maybe I'll wait a few months to see the reviews and how the hinge and screen fold hold up. But tempted for sure...
elwell 1 hours ago [-]
Why were you hoping you didn't?
ceejayoz 1 hours ago [-]
I'm the sort of person to absentmindedly flex a metal fork enough times it snaps, so it's definitely not for me.
mrweasel 1 hours ago [-]
Probably, but do enough people want it? The iPhone SE and the mini was discontinued do to "poor" sales, meaning poor for an iPhone. I'm interested to see if Apple will stop selling the Duo if it only sells at the same rate as the SE.
I don't know who this is for and can't figure out what problem this solves. It's cool, but it's not $2800 cool (yes, it's $800 more expensive in some markets). For that price is has to do more than fold in half, maybe fold into a swan of something.
toasty228 1 hours ago [-]
They just have to make it appealing enough, a loooot of people buy ipads because they're cool and they project themselves into all these fancy advertised situations, 90% of the time it ends up gathering dust or being used 15 min on a sunday morning while you're too lazy to get out of bed.
jerlam 1 hours ago [-]
Most people I know who use iPads do so because a phone is too small to see or type on, but an actual computer/laptop is too complicated and intimidating to use.
aurareturn 1 hours ago [-]
Yea. If there is one thing I learned over the years is that people always prefer a bigger screen, as long as it is still reasonable to hold.
This is especially true in the younger generation where many of them don’t own a computer. They do everything on their phones or iPads.
httpz 1 hours ago [-]
Are you suggesting Apple made a foldable phone without doing any market research on demand?
asdff 39 minutes ago [-]
Apple isn't infallible. See AVP.
burningChrome 1 hours ago [-]
I can't think of an application outside of travel or long commutes on a train where I would use this. For a daily driver its too big to fit into a pants pocket and the price tag is TGH.
frantathefranta 1 hours ago [-]
Yes I'm quite interested in a foldable from Apple. Have been since I got an 7" Acer Android tablet ~13 years ago and was annoyed at the necessity of carrying 2 devices.
ako 1 hours ago [-]
No, for that money I can buy an iPhone and an iPad.
Just checked, iPhone 17 256gb plus an iPad 13inch 256gb is about 100 euros cheaper than the cheapest iPhone duo.
adamwk 1 hours ago [-]
A lot of people own Samsung foldable phones? They’re especially popular in China and South Korea
elwell 1 hours ago [-]
Are you offering?
altairprime 1 hours ago [-]
I'm just reaching the age where I need reading glasses late in the day, and so in a couple years when I'm out of school and employed again, this is starting to look like the best option in the Kindle / Tablet space: it isn't just a flat pane of glass and it's no bigger than a Nintendo DS, so it will fit on my crowded surfaces and in my purse.
Do I want it? Ehhhh. I hate heavy objects. I stopped buying the Pro line because the weight just kept increasing. So I will probably not particularly enjoy that mass of batteries dragging on the purse strap. But I enjoy reading glasses less and I just don't want an unwieldy bigscreen that I can't hold easily like the iPhone Air.
sdcfgy 1 hours ago [-]
It’s not if anyone wants it or not. There’s always some melon who does. It’s more will they sell enough to break even on it.
Merad 1 hours ago [-]
I definitely didn't want one 30 minutes ago, but now that I've seen it the idea of a phone that can be smaller in the pocket but unfold to give a large screen is pretty darn appealing. Appealing enough to pay 50% more for it? Eh... probably not.
jawngee 1 hours ago [-]
I do.
jey 37 minutes ago [-]
I love this concept. I’d be able to stop carrying my laptop anr and just monitor and respond to things via SSH from my phone.
miramba 54 minutes ago [-]
I want the hardware, but with Linux! SteamOS or bazzite would be a good start..
floturcocantsee 1 hours ago [-]
They were very evasive on what the inner screen was made of. I'm going to assume its the same plastic all the other folding phones are made of.
mrexroad 1 hours ago [-]
Evasive? They literally discussed the layers of materials, with the outer being a polymer.
adamwk 1 hours ago [-]
They went in pretty extensive detail for the internal parts of the folding screen?
fckgw 1 hours ago [-]
They talked for several minutes on the materials and engineering that went into the screen and how it wasn't "the same plastic all the other folding phones are made of"
layer8 1 hours ago [-]
Modern foldables use ultra-thin glass (UTG). There’s a factory-installed screen protector layer on top which can make it feel plasticy.
LoganDark 1 hours ago [-]
Doesn't removing the "screen protector" destroy the pixels? Or was that just some early Samsungs? (that made an important built-in layer look like a screen protector)
layer8 59 minutes ago [-]
Yea, it’s not supposed to be removed.
LoganDark 49 minutes ago [-]
I was hopeful that the Apple foldable would use glass as the top layer so it doesn't get scratched. Plastic does not inspire confidence; no coating can actually protect it from damage because it can still simply get plastically squished.
neom 1 hours ago [-]
Think I'll just wait for the rumored iPhone Air 2. iPhone Air is for sure the best phone I've ever owned, the battery life doesn't bother me but the camera isn't ideal at all. Duo looks cool but I'm not sure I need a device that will encourage me to "play" on my phone more than I already shouldn't.
achow 1 hours ago [-]
I cannot believe that the central crease could disappear altogether!
Suspiciously could not see reviews of it yet - usually bloggers like mkbhd get their hands on early, and they release the reviews moment the embargo is off, usually when live event is over. This time nothing.
fckgw 1 hours ago [-]
It doesn't come out until October. There won't be anything to review until then.
kristofferR 1 hours ago [-]
That's not true, the journalists are hands on with it right now.
Here's a live stream of the popular obnoxious streamer, he held it a few minutes ago (also talked with MKBHD).
That hinge mechanism looks like some pretty wild engineering to me.
post_break 1 hours ago [-]
Somewhat related, Apple snuck in a $100 price increase on the regular iPhone 17.
hypfer 17 minutes ago [-]
Why do these things exist?
I mean I do understand the appeal of the idea of folding smartphones, but I did not hear about any miracle material breakthroughs lately.
So.. how can this exist? Why does it say that it is durable, when it has to be made out of materials that cannot be durable or else they wouldn't fold.
Did something change there and I'm just using stale data for that assessment, or is "durability" just not as valuable to the target audience?
58 minutes ago [-]
1970-01-01 1 hours ago [-]
Google and Samsung have been at this for years. Nothing here is actual innovation, is it?
doom2 51 minutes ago [-]
It's a shame there isn't the kind of competition in the US when it comes to mobile phones as there is in China. Many HN users would likely never buy a Chinese OEM device, but if you look at the variety of devices offered by Chinese brands, they're trying all sorts of approaches. Kind of like their EV market. Meanwhile, your choices in the US are Apple, Samsung, Motorola, Google, and that's pretty much it. I wouldn't say there's a ton of innovation between them...kind of like the large US automakers.
rootusrootus 1 hours ago [-]
Depends on if it starts to get a crease after using it a while. I tend to assume that this is why Apple chose not to adopt folding screens as quickly as Android phones did.
asdff 34 minutes ago [-]
I mean that is the business. These companies are in the business of ordering parts from components vendors and leasing floor space to assemble them after all. Folding screen is probably something you can order from many companies in shenzen at scale right now (or whichever chinese city is the "cell phone screen" hub, might not be shenzen).
omikun 1 hours ago [-]
Just like the first iPod and iPhone.
1970-01-01 51 minutes ago [-]
What iPods could make a phone call and browse the Web in 2007 that weren't made by Apple?
mrcwinn 8 minutes ago [-]
What is it about Hacker News that draws only criticism and negativity? Is it even possible to build a community that's optimistic?
NamTaf 1 hours ago [-]
All this so people can watch The Odyssey as Nolan intended whilst on the go.
More seriously though, now do just the front screen on a non-folding device. It can even remain as thick as this thing when it's folded.
timpera 42 minutes ago [-]
Panos Panay must be so vindicated right now. The Surface Duo truly was ahead of its time.
MattDamonSpace 6 minutes ago [-]
The right idea at the wrong time is the wrong idea
techteach00 50 minutes ago [-]
A foldable iPad that can make phone calls?
accrual 17 minutes ago [-]
Seems that way! Small detail, but I liked that the front display can be used for taking selfies with the main camera. Opens the door for slightly nicer selfies with the self or friends, versus stuck with front camera or shooting blind.
comandillos 1 hours ago [-]
What's the value of using one of these phones running iOS? iOS is great for media consumption and not so much for productivity... so I don't understand very well the use cases... apart from watching Netflix I guess?
fckgw 1 hours ago [-]
iOS runs plenty of productivity software, many which run great on larger screen devices like this or iPads. What does "productivity" mean to you? Or is it just terminals and coding?
comandillos 1 hours ago [-]
I might be a weirdo, but even the mail client on iOS has serious deficiencies. Just getting an email with a zip attachment where I have to edit / sign a document with a certificate / something, rezip and send back is a hell in iOS, while it simply feels natural in Android.
ktallett 1 hours ago [-]
That is a huge market that they are ignoring.
alistairSH 1 hours ago [-]
Slightly better for documents and spreadsheets? Although I have a laptop for those, so... I guess I'm not the target audience.
basisword 1 hours ago [-]
Most people aren’t doing productivity. They’re watching videos and playing games. This would mean I don’t need my iPad on flights or when travelling. And when I’m travelling I don’t need to be doing productive things.
docdeek 1 hours ago [-]
How do you put a case on a foldable phone? Or do you not put one on, rely on the ceramic to protect the screen, and pay for Apple Care for cheap replacement screens?
They had two. One it appears to snap on magnetically, I think the other might have had too small hinges on it, but I didn’t look very hard, and it wasn’t on screen long.
cute_boi 10 minutes ago [-]
Whats the point of big screen when we can't even install the app we want. Sideloading works for 7 days and there is artificial limitation of 7-8 App Ids which sucks.
fishtoaster 1 hours ago [-]
The weight is interesting: 8.96 ounces (254 grams).
Not much more than the 18 pro max - 8.78 ounces (249 grams). The Duo sure looks chonky, but that's not the end of the world.
green-salt 1 hours ago [-]
TouchID only is an interesting choice, very interested in the 2nd iteration after we see the crease and hinge wear after a few thousand actuations.
randusername 1 hours ago [-]
Well "kid cue" is pretty uncomfortable for some reason
me_online 1 hours ago [-]
Agreed. Disturbing.
juiceland 1 hours ago [-]
I don't have kids -- what's wrong with this feature?
kombine 1 hours ago [-]
The hardware is probably stellar and it must be an incredible reading device, but it's 2026 and I refuse to buy a device with a proprietary locked down software ecosystem.
hyperhello 1 hours ago [-]
I sympathize but you're literally looking at something an hour old and demanding that the economic and political realities that produced it change entirely.
LeoPanthera 1 hours ago [-]
I too have nothing to contribute to this post.
Lord-Jobo 1 hours ago [-]
I agree with the sentiment and hopefully am using my last phone like that right now, but I’m also really hoping for very big advances for Linux phones before it comes time to upgrade. Right now they all seem to have serious drawbacks
acd 1 hours ago [-]
Explore Pixel Grapheneos Lineageos or Fairphone
Unlocked boot loader in pixel to load third party operating system. PinePhone for Linux
Ubuntu touch
thomasjeff1 1 hours ago [-]
Exactly my feelings. I want something with custom ROM.
ocdtrekkie 1 hours ago [-]
Considering only two major mobile platforms exist and both are proprietary locked down software ecosystems, I assume you have a PinePhone or something?
derac 58 minutes ago [-]
The pixel bootloader can be unlocked, also Android is significantly more of an open platform than iOS. I mean, stuff like Morphe exists on Android.
wmichelin 1 hours ago [-]
Very brave take about Apple /s
bilsbie 34 minutes ago [-]
Do you think this would work well for coding?
didip 1 hours ago [-]
It looks very useful with all the software integrations. Now the price tag however... Without financing it would be hard for majority of buyers to justify.
basisword 1 hours ago [-]
Doesn’t almost everyone finance their phone anyway? You pay a carrier x a month and get a phone and service for a few years. Maybe they’ll push the plan out from 2 years standard to 3 so it’s just as affordable for people?
dramm 27 minutes ago [-]
This is the kind of product the make all out lives better. I mean the pure entertainment value it will bring being able to watch eager Apple fan bois new iPhone Duo screen crack, or the hinges start grinding, or ...
makeitdouble 1 hours ago [-]
Are the on screen controls fixed to the right ?
The curved right side makes me think so, but it sound like a pain for people using their phone left hand dominantly.
tripdout 1 hours ago [-]
It looks very wide in the unfolded configuration.
xdavidliu 1 hours ago [-]
same thought. I'm wondering how I'm gonna fit that in my pocket.
bartvk 13 minutes ago [-]
What do you mean? Would you want to unfold it, then put it in your pocket?
1 hours ago [-]
kaikayy 1 hours ago [-]
So excited to see if the "apple adoption delay" holds true here. Like more durability and actual long term software support.
gib444 14 minutes ago [-]
In practice, it'll just be for TikTok (or other shorts) permanently on one side, right?
I guess people spend more money than even this on other addictions
sdcfgy 1 hours ago [-]
Can’t wait until my colleague who DMed me mid presentation to get one and break it like he did with his two Samsung ones.
voidfunc 3 minutes ago [-]
Lol $2K. Fuck that.
willis936 58 minutes ago [-]
It makes the worst part of the iphone: text entry, even worse. I love the idea of a more capable PDA, but typing is more important than ever and it must be improved. Keyboards need to be a focus. Use eye tracking, use finger tracking, add physical buttons, just try something. Also, please fix the swiped keyboard software. It's unbearable. Admit it, fix it, quickly please.
aurareturn 1 hours ago [-]
I wonder if the side bar controls can be moved to the left side. I always hold my phone using my left hand.
MYEUHD 49 minutes ago [-]
It took them only 7 years to catch up to Samsung!
10 years from now people will claim Apple invented folding smartphones or made them mainstream, just like they claim the same thing now about smartwatches.
parasxos 42 minutes ago [-]
This will be another flop just like the iPhone Air. $2000 is f**ing crazy. A MacBook Pro is the same price haha. The storage is also shit 256gb??
MattDamonSpace 4 minutes ago [-]
Air’s the best iPhone they’ve ever made imo
accrual 18 minutes ago [-]
I wonder if the iPhone Air was something like a pilot or beta test for the Duo. Getting things as thin as possible and shipping it before attaching two of them together. FWIW I feel there's more demand for foldables (Google/Samsung/Microsoft have demonstrated some) than there is for ultra thin phones with the tradeoffs those entail.
roundabout-host 22 minutes ago [-]
Interesting, but of no use as I can't replace its OS.
crooked-v 17 minutes ago [-]
So where's the add-on that adds a thumbstick and some buttons so I can play DS games on it?
erelong 55 minutes ago [-]
interesting design, would like a phone that opens up with a touch-typeable keyboard / nub mouse (to be like a pocket laptop / umpc)
t1234s 1 hours ago [-]
A terminal app would be cool where the bottom half is a decent keyboard with arrow/pg keys
charamis 1 hours ago [-]
I’d like a comeback of the live events at some point. Especially now that there is a new CEO.
cubefox 1 hours ago [-]
They are addicted to teleprompters. Steve Jobs didn't use them.
a_paddy 1 hours ago [-]
The top right selfie camera is a "courageous" choice.
bluepeter 1 hours ago [-]
Sandy ant video intro is good. Love the whimsical fun music, whatever it is.
pagade 1 hours ago [-]
Was there a reference to using AI to decide where to place the hinges?
leduyquang753 1 hours ago [-]
It's about finding best matching hinges and phone frames.
aurareturn 1 hours ago [-]
Yes I thought that was weird and forced.
andrewmlevy 1 hours ago [-]
Love the FaceTime camera behind the display
tripdout 1 hours ago [-]
It looks very wide in the unfolded configuration.
JohnHaugeland 11 minutes ago [-]
my beloved surface duo has returned <3
james_marks 1 hours ago [-]
First iPhone I've actually wanted in a long time.
thepasswordis 1 hours ago [-]
I'm interested to see what cases for this will look like.
I would not, under any circumstance, use that official case.
My experience; I walked with an iPad Pro in my hand and I went to an interview, so I was a bit nervous. I let the iPad slip out of my hand. It had the official Apple cover, which leaves the edge exposed. So it falls, and drops such that it dents the side. This in turn cracks the display. I learned that Apple will not replace a display when the frame is damaged.
leptons 52 minutes ago [-]
Do you think this is the first folding phone that ever existed? There are plenty of cases for folding phones, they've been around for many years already. Cases for this phone will likely work exactly the same.
nish__ 1 hours ago [-]
Been using a galaxy fold for years now. This is the future.
cubefox 1 hours ago [-]
What's your take on the aspect ratio question?
Insanity 1 hours ago [-]
Honestly don't see the appeal of foldable phones. I don't use my phone a lot, but the form factor even as a small tablet is not something useful for my phone use-cases.
When I'm at home, I can just use my iPad. When I'm on the road, I don't need to be watching content on a slightly larger screen.
I get that I'm not the target audience, but it's still confusing to me why people like foldable phones.
omikun 1 hours ago [-]
I know right. I don’t get it either. How could other people have different preferences?
00ze 1 hours ago [-]
Ugh; folding screens are so failure prone these things just exacerbate e-waste problems
Would rather ditch my phone size thing and be able to pair a cellular Watch to iPad Mini size thing that also has "50% more screen" than iPhone Max
Gen AI could take telemetry like GPS from Watch and recreate most adventures without need of all the pictures; I don't care if every little thing like a day hike is captured "for real"
Would still hire a photographer for actual meaningful moments like weddings and graduations
roarkeful 1 hours ago [-]
What an amazingly soulless way to think
00ze 1 hours ago [-]
Oh noes; from the other side of an obvious Gulf of Information Assymetry an internet random unaware I am fluent on 3 musical instruments, have won awards for poetry, charcoal drawings and grow 1/4-1/3 of my vegetables each year... believes I have no soul
If you're only capable of reducing the entire comment to a single piece of it you would be wise to sit and meditate on comments first rather than vomit copy pasta opinions; the whole knee jerk copy pasta approach to social media discourse is soulless in its own way
1 hours ago [-]
44 minutes ago [-]
gshakir 1 hours ago [-]
Is it thicker than iPhone pro when folded?
I want it more thinner!!
r0fl 1 hours ago [-]
Only duo thousand dollars
Great branding by the new CEO
1 hours ago [-]
corvad 1 hours ago [-]
Surprised it was not named iPhone 18 Duo.
SkeuomorphicBee 1 hours ago [-]
Naming it like that would subjectively tie them to the release schedule of the main Iphone line, while I imagine such a niche device will have a much slower schedule between new versions. If that is the case, they would want to continue selling this device alongside the Iphone 19 (and maybe 20, or even 21) without the name implying it is an old model.
it's a mistake though to demand an iphone to own the watch (can't configure it otherwise)
always held me back from ever buying an apple watch, don't want an iphone or ipad
Synthetic7346 27 minutes ago [-]
Yeah my apple watch was pretty much a brick after I switched to android
pjerem 1 hours ago [-]
Honestly I have owned two Apple Watches and you are missing nothing. They do look nice if that’s your taste, but they are extremely locked down and are pretty useless without an iPhone. I cannot cite even one application that is a killer app on the Apple Watch. Most apps are just a companion for the iOS part of the app.
LoganDark 55 minutes ago [-]
YMMV, but I have a Watch for:
- checking the time (obviously)
- sleep tracking
- high heart rate warnings
- sleep and heart rate trends over time
- reviewing notifications or declining calls without grabbing phone
None of these are "killer apps" but they're conveniences. I like having an accurate source of time that I don't have to pick something up for. I like being able to track my sleep schedule and duration over time. I like to know when my heart rate is high so I can take steps to quiet down. I don't use many of the other features, maybe some sparingly, but I've never really used the Watch for its apps anyway. And I think only the last feature on my list, maybe the last two, needs iPhone.
I've had to go without my Watch for the better part of half a year because it's refurbished and I've been trying to diagnose an Apple Developer Program enrollment issue, and Apple won't tell me which device was previously used so I have to rule out everything I didn't purchase brand new, etc., but I still constantly feel its absence. It's just a convenience but it was a welcome one.
Note that the Watch did previously require an iPhone for initial setup, but it does not anymore.
pjerem 14 minutes ago [-]
Oh but I agree that the Apple Watch does all of that very well, I myself use it mostly for this.
I was just answering to gp : the Apple Watch pretty much only make sense if you own an iPhone. Else, you’d better buy any other smartwatch brand which will allow you to do much more than an Apple Watch without an iPhone.
dmitrygr 49 minutes ago [-]
> can't configure it otherwise
This has not been true for a while. Google "apple watch family setup". You just need to know someone with an iphone, once, to set it up. You can even set up cellular and use that for all watch internet needs, incl imessage, calls, facetim (audio), and weather & apps
adolph 59 minutes ago [-]
I took the tethering demand as Apple chickening out from Watch doing to iPhone what iPhone did to iPod. Having used a cell plan watch for a while, I can almost do away with the full phone aside from it being a requirement to manage the watch.
59 minutes ago [-]
n42 1 hours ago [-]
I am really quite disappointed this was not taken as an opportunity to make the default form factor smaller. Instead it seems like the folded mode is larger than a pro max, which is insane. I guess I'll just continue with the normal phones.
It seems they are segmenting the market on creator vs consumer between the pro and the duo, and betting the consumers want this form factor.
sroussey 51 minutes ago [-]
The pro max is like 6.9” screen and the duo is 5.4”? How is that bigger? Perhaps wider, but the thumb should have better reach and coverage of the screen.
n42 48 minutes ago [-]
iPhone 18 Pro: 2.83 inches wide
iPhone 18 Pro Max: 3.07 inches wide
iPhone Duo: 3.31 inches wide
my issue with phone sizes has never been their height, and has always been about resting in my palm.
will buy it for the kid cue feature alone; what a neat idea. i mainly use my iphone for reading books and taking pictures of my kids so the format will be perfect for me.
Insanity 1 hours ago [-]
Reading might be the one use-case for a foldable phone when you're on the go. Even so, a basic Kindle fits in a purse / fanny-pack just fine and is much more comfortable on the eyes.
octernion 1 hours ago [-]
agreed about the kindle being more comfortable, but, the best reading device (+ camera) is one you always have on you.
LoganDark 42 minutes ago [-]
I see the nano-texture is non-negotiable -- you won't get a clear screen with the Duo. I'm incredibly skeptical of this, and I'll have to check it out once it's in-store to see if that's even something I could tolerate in daily use. When I checked out a Studio Display with nano-texture, I could not stand it because of the shimmery rainbow grain, somewhat like staring through Scotch tape, and the general fuzziness of text. Not sure if that's improved, since Apple doesn't address flaws in their past products.
krttherealest 37 minutes ago [-]
samsung fold lookalike
IAmNotACellist 1 hours ago [-]
So brave of Apple to make the world's first foldable phone
brap 1 hours ago [-]
Folded phones are the essence of “just because you can doesn’t mean you should”
perching_aix 49 minutes ago [-]
I'm not sure whether this counts substantive enough, but WOW that thing looks absolutely comical, lol
Naturally, I can already see people deeming it to be the most beautiful thing ever though.
Truly, I'll never understand Apple, nor their design language.
vrosas 1 hours ago [-]
You're going to look very silly taking a call on that.
corvad 1 hours ago [-]
$2K is quite a lot.
dude250711 52 minutes ago [-]
This would have been quite impressive just 5 years ago.
t1234s 1 hours ago [-]
I was thinking it would be priced cheaper than an 18 pro and an ipad mini
llmslave 58 minutes ago [-]
Buying this immediately and getting rid of my laptop, going full AI native to do all my work. Never sitting in front of a laptop again.
jldugger 35 minutes ago [-]
Congratulations on your self promotion into management.
dyauspitr 59 minutes ago [-]
What I am most interested in is what the fold line looks like and I guess we won’t know until we start getting YouTube reviews.
napolux 1 hours ago [-]
f*ck you if you’re left-handed like me
tamimio 1 hours ago [-]
If there was an iPhone like a pen in form factor (like nokia 7280) I would buy it in a heartbeat.
ex-aws-dude 1 hours ago [-]
I don't think the price is that crazy considering how often you use your phone
What other item do you own that you spend so many hours using
The rounded corners look ridiculous on this phone. They also cut off a non-trivial part of the displayed content now.
joemi 27 minutes ago [-]
Why is that area non-trivial? Do you use anything that has important content in the very corners? I've never seen anything that has important content in the areas this cuts off. I'm really curious about your use of corners!
cyberax 9 minutes ago [-]
It makes this area unusable if you want to show a page in a book reader, for example. Or a movie/video.
I also like to spectate games on Twitch/Youtube, and corners are often used for important stats.
joemi 2 minutes ago [-]
The corners aren't rounded enough to impact those things though.
rdm_blackhole 1 hours ago [-]
I don't see the appeal of this or the Phone 18 for the matter. I have an (old) iPhone 15 Pro that just works so the upgrade just doesnt seem worth it.
Also I think it would be quite bulky to carry the Duo in a pocket all day long.
poly2it 1 hours ago [-]
I'm looking forward to doing code review on the go on a phone like this! Once a GrapheneOS-compatible brand copies it, that is.
well_ackshually 1 hours ago [-]
Watching my iOS colleagues tear their hair out with SwiftUI's lack of proper support of foldables for the next... Two years about will be highly entertaining.
1 hours ago [-]
rsync 41 minutes ago [-]
"Short everything this guy has ever touched ..."
bellowsgulch 1 hours ago [-]
I want it, but for $2,000, I want to be able to do so much more.
behnamoh 1 hours ago [-]
Steve Jobs would roll in his grave due to lack of symmetry in this.
jedberg 1 hours ago [-]
Actually I think he would appreciate the beauty in using 1:1.4, the same as metric paper, to maintain the ratio.
billti 1 hours ago [-]
Yeah. It's more Jony Ive who will be rolling in his Bentley.
t1234s 1 hours ago [-]
Having watched the original iPhone event live, bringing the pencil to the iphone would make him roll over in his grave.
juiceland 1 hours ago [-]
The original admonition was against requiring a stylus, not enabling one.
ndarray 1 hours ago [-]
Would probably push the engineers to deliver three-way foldables like the Huawei Mate XT from two years ago. The two-way folding phones are wasting a screen and will go down in history as an abomination. The weird 1:1.4 width:height ratio wouldn't be necessary if you could 3x the screen size instead of only 2x. At 3x, the ratio could be 1:1.73 folded, giving you 3:1.73 unfolded (which equals 1.73:1). 1.73 is much closer to 16:9 (1.77) than 1.4 is.
xlayn 1 hours ago [-]
unleashes unparallel, unrivaled, totally new, amazing, exciting new ways of interacting with the MOST POW3RFUL!!!!!
then all the photos either what's on the inside it's repeated whats on the outside,
or... and hold your breath... you can show on one side the calendar and on the other side the clock... now you can breath...
Meh, another 2 or 3$k gadget that does the same as the previous one?
andrewla 48 minutes ago [-]
Annoying that they gave this thing touch id but not the non-folding version.
Restoring Touch ID is one of the things that might make me upgrade my existing iPhone before its time.
heisenbit 23 minutes ago [-]
Let's wait and see how well this Touch ID works. My alarm bells went off when it was mentioned in conjunction with the Apple Watch also being able to unlock it.
codingisfreedom 1 hours ago [-]
“The largest iPhone display ever”
Gosh I hate that idiotic marketing.
semiinfinitely 1 hours ago [-]
if only it ran linux
eddieroger 46 minutes ago [-]
It runs Unix but somehow I bet that doesn't really change anything.
tiahura 1 hours ago [-]
$2000 and they can’t give you the full display? What stupid design document from 1985 says people want the corners of their screen cut off?
cubefox 1 hours ago [-]
I'm at a loss why anyone thought this asymmetrical design looks good.
sajithdilshan 1 hours ago [-]
2300Euros in Germany. That’s a hard pass.
retired 1 hours ago [-]
No SIM slot. Seems like Apple is only thinking of the US market. Will not be getting the Duo as I will not be able to browse the web outside my home.
Edit: Rate limited so can't reply to the comments. I live in Spain, can't switch to eSIM. I know that the US has 100% integration of eSIM across all providers but outside the US it's not that great. I use eSIM and SIM a lot, have lots of cards and subscriptions. For my main subscription I can't switch to eSIM (yet).
ladberg 1 hours ago [-]
Where do you live that eSIM isn't an option?
owldown 1 hours ago [-]
Why do you think eSIM is a US only thing? Common in Western Europe and Japan and South Korea and Mexico and Canada and Australia and Thailand as well. China and India are the big outliers, but that can change.
riffraff 1 hours ago [-]
Don't your country telcos have esims?
Even mainstream operators in my country have those these days, so you can sign up online without getting to a shop.
oliv__ 31 minutes ago [-]
I feel bad for iOS developers... Good luck supporting yet another format for your apps
dmitrygr 1 hours ago [-]
Looking forward to reviews after a few months of use. So far all the foldables I've seen get destroyed quite fast.
accrual 1 hours ago [-]
They went over their multi-layer design to give it strength and flexibility, and noted over 100 components in the hinge alone. I'll be looking out for JerryRigEverything on YouTube to see how tough it really is!
kllrnohj 1 hours ago [-]
JerryRigEverything won't tell you how easily the hinge gunks up or cruft gets stuck in places it's not supposed to be or how quickly crease marks show up and how bad they are.
While Apple certainly looked at the competitors to see what problems they had, it's far from a given that Apple has managed to actually solve the durability issues, either, much less on their first attempt.
minimaxir 1 hours ago [-]
The presentation went into extra detail about durability w/ a titanium construction, and the iPhone Air was indeed super durable with it. The hinge at-the-least looks like it could survive the dust test.
makeitdouble 1 hours ago [-]
It's a claim in a marketing presentation though.
Apple also touts ultra durable screens in their presentation and people still shatter them regularly.
minimaxir 1 hours ago [-]
"ultra durable" does not mean "indestructible."
georgeburdell 1 hours ago [-]
Apple has most likely stress tested its engineers to stress test this phone
cubefox 1 hours ago [-]
> So far all the foldables I've seen get destroyed quite fast.
I doubt you did see any from the last few years.
exabrial 1 hours ago [-]
shit, I'd take this form factor but with a physical keyboard.
surfingdino 50 minutes ago [-]
I'm still waiting for Apple to rediscover the Psion 3a or 5 format and Applefi it. when they do, I'm in.
FpUser 55 minutes ago [-]
>"breakthrough foldable design" - and what exact part of it is "breakthrough"? Do they have "invisible fold"?
likelybot 39 minutes ago [-]
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wazzap 1 hours ago [-]
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IAmNotACellist 1 hours ago [-]
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ocdtrekkie 1 hours ago [-]
Apple has almost never been first to anything, but usually goes for "best at it" once it enters the market. I'm assuming you'll see four times as many foldables next year as a bunch of people start to consider it no longer an experiment. And obviously there's a lot of people who simply couldn't consider a foldable before because they were only available with Android.
DarmokTanagra 1 hours ago [-]
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gtadesktop1 1 hours ago [-]
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1 hours ago [-]
rvz 1 hours ago [-]
Another status symbol has been created.
But once again as I said before [0][1], don't buy the first version of an Apple product.
Wait a sec, you're quoting yourself for proof but you were pretty much objectively wrong in that case? HN unanimously agrees that the M1 was the biggest jump in capabilities and has had many many years of usability since launch.
varispeed 1 hours ago [-]
It looks meh. Seems like Apple is following, no longer leading. Samsung feels more polished.
baalimago 1 hours ago [-]
I suspect I would get greater value by simply duct-taping two iPhones together into a fold.
canucker2016 1 hours ago [-]
The two batteries inside the Duo will allow longer usage.
from the Duo page:
- Up to 31 hours video playback when using the inner display
- Up to 44 hours video playback when using the outer display
asdff 28 minutes ago [-]
You can run one iphone at a time and lap the duo. 64gb iphone SE is going for $140 at best buy right now. I could tape up 10 of them into a jacobs ladder then I'd have 640gb of storage and maybe 10x the battery life of the duo, and money to spare for future expansion iphones.
BatFastard 1 hours ago [-]
Go Apple, bring up the rear!
Can they even do anything new?
LeoPanthera 1 hours ago [-]
Apple has had the "perfect existing technology" business model for FIFTY years and people are still surprised.
BatFastard 58 minutes ago [-]
I can't argue with that model, but in the past they actually did new and interesting things! The M series processor, the iPhone. Lets hope new CEO who is more of an engineer then the last one was ramps things up.
austinthetaco 45 minutes ago [-]
most of their innovations are in stuff that would be boring to go into detail with. They talked about the advancements in their A series processors (but you left that out), they talk about their complex layering to prevent a crease from forming, they talk about the dynamic audio. Love em or hate em but you cant say they arent doing new things.
sgallant 1 hours ago [-]
why is Apple releasing new products when Siri is falling so short compared to the industry. Make Siri amazing would improve every apple product immensely.
saaaaaam 59 minutes ago [-]
I’m sure I read something about NEW SIRI somewhere. Siri isn’t just falling short, it seems to be getting actively and progressively more useless. My HomePod speakers take about 10 seconds to respond now and often get things wrong.
toufka 54 minutes ago [-]
The new iOS rebrands Gemini as Siri - and from all accounts of the public beta, it's pretty decent, and an enormous upgrade from the current/old Siri.
LoganDark 59 minutes ago [-]
Siri is slowly getting better, but Apple's never been about matching the industry. They've always been about being the best Apple they can be. (They haven't followed this perfectly, but they keep re-learning it's the way, every time someone tries to mess with the formula.)
antics9 1 hours ago [-]
I’ll not buy a new iPhone until they release a new mini. No, this duo is not worth it.
8by3 1 hours ago [-]
I'm so happy I stopped caring about new phones about five years ago, since then I've spent about $200 on phones – for a used pixel 8 that I installed GrapheneOS on.
Consumerism is mad.
asdff 37 minutes ago [-]
Only 5 years ago? I feel like they stopped getting interesting and started getting increasingly worse like 5 years in. I'm still pissed off about the headphone jack.
5s/SE1 is still peak iPhone for me. I pull that thing out of the drawer every now and then and just marvel and the size and weight and how it is barely noticeable in my pocket even compared to my (ginormous in comparison) SE2.
yuhmahp 1 hours ago [-]
Looks like an Android. Couldn't frame it like the iconic notch / dynamic island. Not immediately recognizable. Arrived too late.
valleyer 1 hours ago [-]
Less space than a Nomad? Lame?
joemi 31 minutes ago [-]
Ignoring your other criticism and focusing just on one: How do you justify your claim that it arrived too late? What have people moved onto past foldable phones, in your view?
I don't mind folding. I think it's cool, and a nice way to get a useful space. But I have big hands, and I can't use my iphone 17 now without two hands. This is even wider before unfolding.
Who wants bigger phones? Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?
I want smaller phones. The width of the iPhone 4 was nearly perfect imo. If they would take modern display technology with approximately that width and expand it to 16:9, I think it would kill, even if it were relatively underpowered compared to the modern top of the line.
Apple is in the luxury business.
Volume constraints are bad enough for "normal" models. "Minis" have it way worse.
But right now it's in a space where you're paying extra for the fact that it's a foldable, but it feels....budget in its specs? Like...how does that work?
[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/263437/global-smartphone...
Apple's whole thing is that they don't do niches. Support a select few versions of select few products very very well is the whole MO
Apple can absolutely do niche products. Just not this one I guess.
I'm sure they made money. But that's not the right question to ask, in my opinion. The right question is did they make as much or more than their internal rate of return (IRR)? Perhaps the smaller iPhones (I had one) do not so they cut the product line. Or maybe they over-purchased some components and figured they could make a phone or two out of them.
I for one would love to have my phone turn into a tablet while I'm charging my car. Saves me from having to bring the iPad separately, which can't fit in my pocket. Would eliminate a step from that routine.
Also would love to always have that capability on me in the case where I couldn't have foreseen a need for the bigger screen. Being randomly out with friends and able to spontaneously just show them something in a way they can actually see would be nice.
https://makerworld.com/en/models/1022751-watch-phone#profile...
The first Apple Watches came in 38mm and 42mm sizes. That "large" Apple Watch is the size of the current "small" Apple Watch (42mm).
A large watch face has always been a style people into watches go for. It's not just a digital smartwatch trend.
Can’t imagine Apple ever doing this, though, because a round display is pretty terrible for displaying the sort of content and UI elements that iPhone/Apple Watch users are used to. Much of the UI and all existing apps would need to be completely redesigned.
Until then, off to eBay we go. There are more than enough sitting around completely unused. You aren't missing out on much with 5 iPhone generations these days.
Intrigued by the Duo though
If there was a 15+ mini, I would’ve upgraded a long time ago.
So if you scored a 13 mini and a fresh battery you’d probably be overjoyed from that alone
I was a mini holdout forever but now it’s hard to imagine giving up the Air’s display
The whole advantage of having any screen at all when folded is something quick to access and *one handable*. Just looking at the Duo, it appears too wide for that by a large amount.
If I’m forced to two hand the thing I’ll just get a phablet: no folding mechanism, no unfolding step before using properly, no gigantic price hike (guessing).
I was an iPhone 13 mini user for the last few years. I would buy a refurbished one off Amazon whenever my current one broke. I really prefer the smaller screen size.
Recently, I broke my phone again and my wife happened to have a larger iPhone laying around unused (through some accident of e-commerce). I felt weird buying a new phone when we had a perfectly good one laying around, so I decided to give it a shot.
I don't watch any video on my phone and most of my screentime is Kindle and Safari. My screentime is only like 2-3hrs per day. And yet, I still found myself chronically running out of batteries on the 13 mini. I actually now would prefer to keep my new annoyingly large 16e just to not have the battery anxiety.
(A hidden assumption in the above is that larger screens make more room for battery.)
> But I have big hands, and I can't use my iphone 17 now without two hands.
I've never been able to use a smart phone with one hand, even an original iphone. So this is probably a really niche complaint that you and Shaq have.
And a lot of people who are not prefer smaller ones.
>I've never been able to use a smart phone with one hand, even an original iphone. So this is probably a really niche complaint that you and Shaq have.
Not in the slightest. I've got a Galaxy A52, a large-ish phone for its time, and I can use it quite easily with one hand. I can't readily think of the small-hands equivalent of Shaq to compose a snarky "it's you" retort, and I'm sure it's not just you, but plenty people around you, with relatively normal hands, can use their phone with one hand.
I was timed at 140+ wpm in high school and online tests / etc have hit close to 200 wpm on a Qwerty. So I CAN touch-type and do it well - and keyboard + mouse is my goto jam. My favorite phone (alas, discontinued way too soon) was the Photon Q (work gave us phones way back) with slide-out physical keyboard.
I "use" an S21, but even just entering my 4-digit pin is awkward with my left thumb - is there some other way to hold it? I can't even imagine trying it with my right.. My thumbs just cramp up..
Apple made smaller phones, but they don't sell. They don't sell when they are nice phones, but smaller, and they don't sell when they are cheap phones and smaller.
Tech people are like car people in that they don't really appreciate that their preferences are niche. Wanting a smaller phone is akin to wanting a smaller car
> with relatively normal hands, can use their phone with one hand.
According to the US Army, the average length of the male thumb: 2.75 in; for women it's 2.49. So we can assume the actual population averages are probably a bit lower.
That means the average iphone is larger than the average male thumb, by a reasonable amount, and it has been for quite a number of generations.
Personally, my thumb is as wide as my iphone, but practically, the way I have to hold it one-handed means that I can only reach half of the screen (technically, the bottom quadrant, so 25% of the overall screen area). I'd need another 1" or so to reach the entire width of the screen with a single hand, and idk 2"+ to navigate the entire screen one handed.
The disconnect probably comes from what it means to "use" a phone one-handed. I mean to be able to hold it in one hand and touch anywhere on the screen and perform any action. Which limits phone size to around 2.25"x4.50", or so to account for a average hand to hit 95% of surface area while holding it. You might mean, just be able to type, or just be able to scroll, which does change things.
They funny thing is that the sales numbers were only terrible compared to other iPhones. IIRC it was something like 3% of the iPhone market at the time of discontinuation. Not a big seller for Apple, certainly, but there were times when the Mini made the top ten list for smartphones in general.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af0gtsjfy7E
Because the common user for some strange reason has come to prefer phablets to mobile phones.
Even Samsung offers their 'smaller than a normal phone unfolds to a normal phone' as secondary to the flagship fold. The Flip, to me, is almost marketed as a kid's phone for your teenager.
That is it. Nothing else.
The Duo’s folded size has the same screen size as the iPhone mini, so they did go on the smaller size, rather than trying to unfold a Pro Max. It remains to be seen how the aspect ratio impacts one-handed use.
I’d take a small foldable over a large slab.
Others wrote complicated or bs jokes, here is my SIMPLE tip:
It has to change otherwise people would not buy new. Size can not change randomly so it has 2 ways: decreasing and later it becomes an iwatch, and tablet becomes a phone: this is stupid because harder to increase price.
So increase it is. If you do not like it, use a watch+earpiece as a phone.
Who wants smaller phones: Tens of thousands in lower end market.
It’s frustrating when you have an uncommon desire for a mass market product, I get it. But the answer to “why do they” is pretty obvious if you can understand that you’re not representative.
Because every time, they want it to be the next big thing.
But instead we got the largest screen before unfolding…
I'd love a tiny phone. I just can't see it anymore.
Wait until you get old enough to have to put readers on to use your devices like most older people do. And while I am yelling at the kids on my lawn, let me add every UI/UX person at apple - the idiotic and unnecessary choices they make for the sake of "cool design" infuriate me on a daily basis.
Are you a woman by any chance? I am currently typing this one handed on an iPhone 17 pro (not the pro max) and don’t consider my hands to be particularly large, for a man, but my wife has to two hand her android which is roughly the same size
Or a smaller phone that is more expensive to produce. In which case, it won’t sell well regardless.
It’s easy to see how we got to this point of large phones, but it is not very clear how someone like Apple can make a significantly smaller phone and keep customers happy.
As you mentioned, other vendors probably will have better luck.
Some want a flagship model, some want a mid range, some entry level... all in small form factors and they won't compromise in order to settle for the one small model that's available.
In 2020, the iPhone SE sold over 24 million units.
In 2022, sales of iPhone mini 13, iPhone mini 12, and iPhone SE made up 12% of total iPhone sales.
Thats despite intentionally nerfing every one of those models.
If you look at comparable phones, the iPhone 7 and 8 (4.7") outsold the iPhone 7 Plus and 8 Plus (5.5") by significant margins.
Nobody wants large phones.
> Nobody wants large phones.
Be serious. 88% of buyers chose something they don’t want? Apple is saying, “actually we hate money, so we’re not going to make a model that people want to buy”?
Why is it so hard for people to accept that maybe their preference isn’t the common one?
I was listening to the Accidental Tech Podcast last week and Marco said that the iPhone Air has lower penetration, after 1 year, than EACH of the 12 mini and 13 mini _currently_ have. Among a tech audience.
We just had to replace a family 13 mini and it sucks to have to go with a huge modern phone. Personally, I'd also prefer a mini if it had the best cameras.
If we go by history, consumers. And when Apple last offered a smaller phone, consumers did not go for it.
It's a new thing.
Not a phone. Not a laptop. Not an iPad.
It's an agent terminal.
Not that that's a bad thing. I absolutely loved the Surface Duo, it was my favorite phone until it stopped working correctly, and I hope other Android manufacturers take note of this, not just Samsung. It's just wild to see how similar this new Duo is to the original Duo.
In a completely clean room environment where a designer had never seen a folding phone, but had all the context of the iPhone and everything Apple had done, they would develop almost exactly the same design and features.
Designers have also been exploring the concept of foldable devices for literal decades, well before any reached the market. I have an industrial design and technology degree, we did a project in 2005 where we explored the designs around this, looking at the UI, the physical interaction, everything. My design had a similar aspect ratio and size, as I am sure half the student did my year and every other year they ran the project. (the iPhone Duo is about thousand times better than my design though!)
Thats not to say the Microsoft designers didn't do an incredible job, they did, but they were building on decades of design ideation from those that had experimented before them.
This feature is also standard in existing folding phones. It's a pretty obvious feature tbh.
While the Duo is more subtle for some changes, it might show us the "new" Apple where the innovation comes from fine-tuning and getting a mature product to the market.
At least from their presentation, it looks like they sat on the fence and looked at pretty much any good or bad thing that happened during the past years.
Seeing some reviews on the Samsung Fold for example, mentioned the speakers feeling weird as the audio orientation is fixed to the speakers location. Those little details make a difference.
I really hope modern Apple would go back to the details and nuances.
[1] https://betawiki.net/wiki/Windows_XP_Tablet_PC_Edition
That's actually the old Apple. Before the iPhone (and after Jobs' return) it was their standard operation procedure: the iMac was a refined workstation, the AirPort was a refined WiFi router, the Time Machine was a refined NAS, the iPod was a refined MP3 player...
Even after the iPad, they mostly cranked out middling stuff like the airPods, all the way to the Vision. They would take whatever good idea was floating around the hardware market, give it a careful polish, and sell it at twice the price. And there is nothing wrong with that - constantly chasing revolutions is risky (see the Vision).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmFM9l5RJSg
Remember... the Duo was supposed to be a cursed Windows 10-esque device. They brought on Movial to do a pivot to Android, then bought out the porting team in early 2024 to keep working on what they should have released in preparation for the Duo 2 (which is what they actually NEEDED to sell as an Android device at the time, but flopped in doing so).
I returned mine in late 2023. It wasn't the best experience and I was missing out on things like NFC dearly.
When I saw that this new phone is 1:1.4, I instantly appreciated why it is that way. Metric paper wins again!
Like only allow A* paper for government forms or something that would force everyone to switch their paper handling infrastructure to A*.
No problem buying it either, though it’s about 2x the price of letter. (I go through about 100-200 sheets per year mostly due to my daughter drawing on it.)
I don’t actually store any printed paper since anything gets scanned and shredded, so no comment on long term filing.
(Due to this experience I recently partially switched to B5 paper, which is a nice size compromise instead of A5 which would be too small. Anything A4 will print to it without scaling issues of course, just takes up a bit less space.)
The main reason I'd want a bigger display is for more immersive content like videos, which are typically 16:9. On a Pixel Fold, you have all the added complexity of the fold to make the videos you watch on the train 1cm taller.
The iPhone Duo unfolds to be the same height as the iPhone Pro Max. Sounds like it has the exact same problem - a bunch of added complexity without a practical use for it.
-----
> Touch ID is integrated into the side button
Another major flaw with the foldable form factor - it's hard to distinguish holding the device e.g. to pocket it and holding the device to use it. My foldable does the smartphone equivalent of butt-dialing way more often than any phone I've had before because it likes to unlock itself when I'm putting it in my pocket
For media consumption on the go, I use AR glasses. They are considerably cheaper than the upgrade from an 18Pro to a Duo, and give you an absolutely giant screen.
I don't think that was subtle shade...
That being said, short-and-wide foldables have been done before, they just never stuck around. Google should've stuck with it on their Pixel Fold, same for Oppo with the Find N.
Shame that the short-and-wide foldables took this long to become more mainstream, since to me it's been the obvious form factor ever since I tried the older Galaxy Folds.
And really, poor sales are no excuse. How many macbook skus do they have that barely move when you go through all the permutations of config? I don't want to work it out but I'd guess there are something like 24 skus of macbook pro they are barely selling in comparison to iphone sales. What's another model iphone in 3 storage tiers?
For context, Apple sold 6 million minis, most Android manufacturers (other than Samsung and Google) can only dream of that volume.
Apple can do it, they just choose not to. It’s not like AVP is a roaring sales success.
I doubt they lost money on it. I’m guessing they just “didn’t make enough“ and decided it would be more profitable to spend that money elsewhere.
I will say as a software developer it was rough getting things working on that tiny screen.
But I know people loved it. I have family members who did. And I totally get it. But it just doesn’t seem to be a big enough part of the market for any of the big players to care at all.
I spent a few hours researching the other night on what replacement phone I'd buy, and.... the answer was a refurbished 13 mini.
I believe Samsung has a new one with a similar form factor too, though I haven't looked into it.
> I’d love a phone that was roughly normal iphone sized when unfolded but was a flip phone à la Motorola razrs in years gone by.
So the Razr does seem pretty comparable to what they were requesting.
When I was 12-13 I started taking a steroidal inhaler which inhibited my growth, so my hands are literally the same size as when I was 13. (maybe slightly wider).
As such I have about the same finger length as the average woman, and when I used the iPhone 4S and 5S I had no problems, I was not able to comfortably use the 6 with one hand, and it came with that ugly camera bump, so I returned it and tried to go Samsung. (it was big, but the rounded edges helped a fair bit) - the software sucked.
I bit the bullet and went back to my 5S, and when the SE (2nd gen - shaped like the iPhone 5 but with beefed internals) rolled out it was a day 1 purchase for me.
Ever since then I've been looking for a phone -- the iPhone "Mini" was as large as the 6 which was too large (I did buy one though) -- I eventually bought an iPhone 15 pro, but honestly, I hate it. It is the heaviest thing I carry daily and it doesn't do anything more than my 5 did that i care about, and I can't comfortably operate it. I start really disliking mobile devices because of it- and the software is getting worse year on year too.
I'm getting serious fatigue from this, but the world has not only caught up to a mobile world, now many things actively expect/require you to have a modern smart phone, especially in Sweden.
On the note on this year's keynote. I can't be the only one who feels the whole vibe of the keynote changed. This isn't Tim Cook style keynote and John Ternus wasted no time to try and changed a few things already. I can't wait for John to further shake things up at Apple. But everything so far, all the small minor details suggest they are in the right direction.
[1] https://x.com/mweinbach/status/2097753099159138631?s=46
I assume the people who would buy something like this have enough money not to care, and also would not care about the second part of my comment, because they want New Thing or use their phones enough for it to be useful.
I guess it might be the case that the only way to make the folding screen thing even remotely work is a very, very expensive manufacturing process. But as is often the case, I don't see how it's worth it?
I want my phones smaller and with Touch ID, not enormous and wrinkly.
Isn't that basically in line with the competition? Cheaper, even, than some of the competition?
If it means don't have to put reading glasses on to use my phone, I'd pay a lot more...
But I think this could be really appealing for a large number of normies who have a phone as their sole computing device.
People have been saying “Oh my God, who would pay $600 for a phone“ for 20 years. Clearly there are such people.
However, maybe you can't buy a house there. For that you'd have to be a millionaire.
A $10,000 car and a $80,000 car are going to be markedly different. Same for a $100,000 house vs a $800,000 house.
This $2,000 phone does not seem 8 times better than my $250 phone.
If I'm going to have to two-hand it, this is perhaps not the worst. Also, it might be more one-handable when closed than regular iPhones.
Is it very expensive? Yes, especially if you don't opt for the base storage (256 is not enough in the age of LLMs). But I've not upgraded in 5 years, so I've got budget to spare.
The phone carriers then upsells their more expensive plans.
> I assume the people who would buy something like this have enough money not to care, and also would not care about the second part of my comment, because they want New Thing or use their phones enough for it to be useful.
But what's the monthly price with Apple's upgrade program? I'd bet that's how most people will be buying it (me included, if I decide to get one).
yeah, insane.
In comparison iPhone Duo only offers a bigger screen and even limited functionality when it comes to camera if you compare it with iPhone 18 Pro.
I think it's going to be very interesting to see how well the sales for the Duo do in year two and three. I suspect sales will go up, but wouldn't be shocked if they drop.
And those who want to boast, can of course buy for the full price. This is a non-zero share of the target market.
You misspelled “you’re overcharged for your mobile subscription and get a phone”.
None of those people have ever messaged me about any other phone event ever
There's enough buyers in the market.
> iPhone Duo uses Touch ID, which is integrated into the side button. This gives you an easy, secure, and consistent way to authenticate iPhone Duo, whether it’s closed or open.
Probably no way to do FaceID from under a display yet.
/s
So you pay $1368 for the privilege of using the Duo for 2 years.
Leasing is a financial construction where you actually own the product / property, with the bank having the option to claim it if you fail to pay.
> a financial construction where you actually own the product / property, with the bank having the option to claim it if you fail to pay.
This is called financing - basically, buying a thing with bank's money which they give you as a loan. For high-value purchases, there are often limitations on what you can do with the object, or requirements (like a requirement to have homeowner insurance for mortgages), but there are usually less restrictions compared to lease since you are the owner.
purchase fee = device list price – lease payments made – remaining discounts or trade-in credits.
If you're paying $1368 over 24 months, you could pay the remaining $632 after those 24 months and keep it with 0% interest.
Is that leasing or renting in your country?
Is that leasing or renting in your country?
Is the difference between renting and leasing even meaningful? You chose a car rental agency for your example because it costs more per month to rent from a short-term rental agency. What is a lease but a long term loan? What difference does it make that I rent my apartment by signing a document called a "lease agreement"? Am I a renter? Or a leaser?
Renting/leasing is not automatically bad. The terms are what make one a good or a bad deal.
> Is the difference between renting and leasing even meaningful?
Where I live, yes. If you lease you are the owner, with the financing company having the ability to seize it when you don't pay. If you rent you are not the owner, but are allowed to use it. Renting is a bit plebeian.
The dimensions are also close.
From a visual aesthetics perspective, I prefer the square edges of the Samsung Fold 8.
Eager to check out the reviews of the software capabilities of the iPhone Duo.
And I'm not sure about the inner screen's selfie camera. The under-screen camera has failed in previous devices, especially for zoom calls, it was abysmal.
Excited for the nano texture displays though. For far too long, Samsung had beaten Apple with non-reflective displays.
It makes sense to have one screen for an as-large-as-possible uninterrupted display, and another for maximum utility.
I like that Samsung doesn't cut as much corner off as Apple, but ideally I'd like to find a manufacturer that doesn't cut corners at all. Even though I'm not likely to buy another iPhone product, I am excited that Apple doesn't cut holes in their interior display, because that'll probably get other manufacturers to do the same.
My biggest worry is the lack of Face ID. I love Face ID so much. I know I can do the Apple Watch unlock, but I don’t want to. I just want my phone to immediately look unlocked to me. and Face ID did that the vast majority of the time.
So I’m very curious to hear what the hands-on impressions from people are. Is the screen good? Can you notice or feel the crease? Is there anything else wrong? Is not having Face ID as annoying as I suspect?
At least there’s something really interesting this year. It’s more than just faster and better cameras, which is nice. And having actual aperture blades on the pro is great.
But this is more interesting.
Did they mention MagSafe?
I'm not sure if they mentioned MagSafe for the iPhone Duo.
That could be a deal breaker.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/biometrics-vs-passcodes-what-l...
Not around here it isn't. The iPhone Duo starts at $2999 for the base storage. The Fold 8 is $2399 and even the Fold 8 Ultra is $2699. This only confirms that Apple has been steadily pricing themselves outside what I'm willing to spend. Can I afford it? Yes. Will I get $3k of value from it? No. This one is not for me at this price.
The Fold8 is $1,899.99 (street price significantly lower as usual), the Duo is $1999.
With Samsung, they're going to heavily discount it over the holiday season.
With Apple, the device is actually going to retain its value in the second hand market.
So there's this value argument that can swing both ways.
There's a perfectly good use case of using this device unfolded with their kickstand powered folio case and a portable keyboard — While getting some zoom calls and productivity / work done.
It's just too big, and too metal.
The form factor is good. I hope things move this direction.
More broadly, it's interesting that the movie has a beautiful future aesthetic that influenced tech most in the recent years. The muted colors with natural materials mixed with ubiquitous tech that was in the background of a human in a humane world where people mostly walk places. I feel like the AI company aesthetic barrowed a lot from that movie. Right down to their office furniture.
Now we just need to make a phone OS to put something like that on that isn't locked down. Forget the year of desktop linux. I am waiting for the year of phone linux. Android doesn't count.
If people would at least use the power they buy... :|
siri is the great exception here. jesus christ what a piece of shit
Its like buying a porsch and driving it always at 100km only.
So yes, a toyota hybrid and a chevrolet hybrid should be exactly the same, but they are not, the price difference reflects it, as does the number of twenty year old toyota hybrids still on the road.
In fact iPads start at $429
People who do this a lot probably just use a DV adapter (maybe it just works with USB-C, but I haven't tried it) for native apps, or casting for streaming video.
You could think this a bit further still, and have all kinds of devices offer an interface to nearby endpoints with a display or controls, establishing connectivity automatically.
I like that he's well into his life and still enjoying writing (or authoring, or whatever we call it now) code, and looks forward to a nice long life. No one lives forever, and I'm sure he's aware of that.
Edit: I don’t know of anyone 75 still coding outside of retired professors here and there. I am not trying to be an ageist. I just don’t think I will be physically capable when I am 75.
I am 65 and still enjoy software development (not coding in particular) but decomposing business idea into software architecture and functionality. Decomposing is the part I really enjoy, the rest is a necessity but with AI that rest takes way less of my time than it used to.
I do not work for someone though. I develop products for clients or for my own business, was doing it all my life and was doing it from my own office for last 26 years. Not overworked either. Have enough time to enjoy life. Al in all very happy
Maybe not $2k fun + inherent risk with buying the first generation of an Apple product particularly after the Apple Vision Pro, but still.
I think this will be a hit, but the $2k is a bit much for me to even consider getting one. Obviously they'll likely drop that price over time.
$2k is a lot to ask, but it answers the market 100% on “I’d like a Samsung Fold 8, but as an iPhone”.
Samsung has already worked out the major kinks for folding displays, over dozens of products used by multiple phone manufacturers including themselves, and Android has worked out how to handle the various use cases between the outer screen and inner screen, when closed, open, or partially open, so Apple can pull from the current state of the art and launch with a more fully developed product, as they usually did before the Apple Vision Pro.
I wish they would stop changing speakers every other sentence though. I swear drone cameras were the worst thing to happen to video, I'm gettin seasick over here!
Apple employees get to claim very little ownership over their work (even in the context of a large tech company), so having all those speaker slots is one way they can provide that ego boost that is so crucial for long term employee morale & retention
I don't get this complaint. People talk with their hands, it'd look more fake if they just stood there all stiff and wooden.
I really don't get why people spend so much on flagship phones! I tend to aim for $200 Motos for me and my family, and it feels like it's a 90%+ solution at a tenth of the price. I can still browse the web, text with people, make calls, listen to music, and take pictures. They still last for years, and if they get dropped and the screen cracks, it just means its time to upgrade. What am I missing here?
It sucks. I wish that would change, but that is what made me switch from Android to iPhone after 12 years on Android. At the time, even flagship androids were lucky to get 2 years of OS updates and security fixes. Apparently Google and Samsung are going to support their devices longer, but I'll wait till they have a track record. But ultimately, an iPhone for me does come out cheaper over the lifetime of a device than cycling through cheap androids every 2 years.
So spending $1800 extra on a nice experience is still better than $30k extra.
I'm not sure the unfolded version will be big enough to truly replace my iPad Pro, though.
many people have a phone as their only device though, so great screens and cameras and everything else are easily rationalized behind the managable cost of carrier plan's indirect loan.
Sidenote, I've not had a single one of my smartphones crack a screen since 2008 when I got my first smartphone, take that for what it's worth.
The old "Apple is different!" attitude was replaced with a police state.
This is a gorgeous design.
Do you expect hn being an uncritical apple fanclub?
Yes.
>Nothing is "genuinely beautiful".
Not sure.
>You can't just call something beautiful
Yes I can.
>and have everyone agree that it is in fact "beautiful".
Of course not.
Just didn’t feel it was an Appleish product.
I don’t care for the 18 Pro colors, I still love my orange 17 Pro, and I’m not sold on the Duo (functionality or price).
I might still end up with a Duo but I’m very much on the fence. I’ll tell myself it’s for development/testing reasons, or just to play with the newest offering but I’m just not sure. I worry this will suffer from the same lack of developer interest as the AVP did. Yes, it’s very different from the AVP and SwiftUI will almost certainly make this process easier but I’m still not sure.
Pretty sure that developer interest is not to be a problem. The Duo will sell more units in a month (or less) than every AVP ever sold.
Apple told developers in June at WWDC to not assume fixed screen sizes. Well-written apps will work on any screen size thanks to Apple's APIs.
Some apps will need to be tweaked to take advantage of some Duo features no doubt, but I suspect that's not going to be a deal breaker.
Or financing, paying it off over a fixed term, after which you own it outright?
The latter, I understand. And I'm also familiar with it.
But the former, I find hard to believe. Although, I'm not from the US. Are you telling me people rented nokia bricks in the aughts?
> Are you telling me people rented nokia bricks in the aughts?
Myself and my family did, for sure. My parents made me pay my own phone bill too, so I spent a long time in the Alltel shop staring at the different phones and probably annoying the clerk.
People have been leasing and renting phones since the 1930's. I guess you missed out on the Ma Bell century.
But at a $2K starting price, plus likely another $200 for the storage size they really expect people to purchase, in this economy, it is so far outside of my price range it is dead to me.
Which is to say: Cool tech, but I've already dismissed it as something I want evaluate for my next phone just based on price alone.
That's maybe the real death-nail for folding phones: Price hasn't yet shifted to allow them to be mass market rather than enthusiast phones.
If I wouldn't at the moment focus on developing iOS apps, the Z Fold 8 would be very tempting.
All the three product you mentioned is exactly the kind of things Steve Jobs did. Don’t make him into this mythological flawless visionary.
Who wants bigger phones? Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?
I want smaller phones. The width of the iPhone 4 was nearly perfect imo. If they would take modern display technology with approximately that width and expand it to 16:9, I think it would kill, even if it were relatively underpowered compared to the modern top of the line.
Maybe they only sell to 5% of users but they sell and at top prices, meaning more possible profit.
And you can’t grow the iPhone at the current sizes. Everyone who once wants at one of those sizes already has one. You either have to convince them to upgrade or switch, and those are both hard.
However, if you give them a choice of something they haven’t had before, it’s way easier. Get the people who wanted to fold and went to android and would like to come back. Get the people who have a max and want something bigger. Get the people with an iPhone 13 who are simply curious enough to do the upgrade, but otherwise would’ve stood still.
Gotta sell.
If you look at phone sales Pro Max out-sells the regular Pro
Regular people like big phones
That looks extremely boring and unexciting. It doesn’t look like it’s Apple, it looks like Xiaoco Fold Z Duo 16.
apple is always "late to the party" and regularly takes existing tech, polishes it to a high standard of UX, and introduces a new paradigm for consumer tech products. if xiaomi has ever done that please let me know.
not to mention that chinese consumer goods companies are largely siloed to the east anyways
The thing looks totally unpolished. The corners are horrible, the UX looks subpar.
It’s the first time I feel like Apple totally rushed a new product without any real vision.
*Xiaoco, I invented this ref.
No way I prioritize that kind of cash on something that only runs mobile-tier software.
If someone had that amount of disposable income last year, they might have it to throw at another upgrade this year.
1. After a while, I think dust would inevitably get in the hinges and wouldn't fold flat. I've seen demos in stores of newer gen Samsung foldable phones and it looks like those wouldn't fold flat
2. The inner screen protector eventually lifted off the screen, causing catastrophic damage, and requiring repair (under warranty thankfully)
3. The aspect ratios were weird. I ended up using native app sizes, making the extra space kind of a waste
One thing I did like about the Samsung foldables was that when they were folded and using the front screen, I finally had a phone that fit my smaller hands! It was nice being able to use my thumb to reach the other side of the screen. Will be interesting to see how this works out because it looks decidedly wider.
For your first point, the iPhone duo is rated IP 68 Dust and Water protection. Literally none of Samsung's book foldables so far have achieved this IP rating.
Notably, the inner screen has a nano‑texture finish (which Apple normally upcharges significantly for), which implies it is glass.
I haven't looked, but am guessing the probably exists on other Apple specs pages.
But I'd say it's the exception. In general it's better to wait for later generation.
"You're folding it wrong."
With terminal emulators, tailscale, local and remote agents, there's never been so much computing capability accessible from your pocket before.
Although I can’t wait for the more powerful Motorolas with GOS to release. Maybe that’d be enough to make a phone my sole computing device.
I sincerely hope one day we can free these hardware devices from the shakles of their software and run anything that's possible.
Until such a time iOS devices are strictly off limits until at least a grapheneOS can run iOS at a minimum.
Something this expensive should not be that fragile year after year.
Have you seen the video in question from two weeks ago?
> GOOGLE MADE A MISTAKE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUT3rUZGqLA&
But without that, I don't see the use for myself. Though I also rock a 13" iPad Pro so even with that it would be a hard sell to replace both.
I still am not sold on the entire idea of a foldable, there is some interesting things here and I will be interested to see how they position it over the next few generations.
Will this fit in a woman's hand?
Maybe the answer lies in only wearing an Ultra watch if it becomes powerful enough and can function independently of a phone.
Daily life is ok with it but most of the issues come from banking and governmental apps.
I wish society was not as keen on making everything go through smartphones nowadays.
After looking one up... https://www.engadget.com/img/gallery/apple-iphone-duo-announ... It looks awkward to hold.
no
Now, I can't even remember what version iPhone I have. I just remember that I bought it after my last one stopped working (after maybe 5 or 6 years of having it). I won't lie: part of the reason is that I'm just getting older and care less about these things.
But a bigger part is that new tech just isn't fun anymore...
I _hate_ using my current iPhone for surfing the web... because I can't run the full suite of ad-blocking software that I run on my computer (Firefox + uBlock, sponsor block; Little Snitch with tons of block lists). I hate that all that ad-blocking software is necessary... but that's a totally different rant.
I _hate_ that I'm being asked to spend $2000 on a device that will, by default, surveil me 24x7. I can spend HOURS trying to disable every feature designed to track me... and still not be certain that somewhere in the TOS that I've still given permission for them to vacuum up SOME piece of information about me.
And I _hate_ that Apple is now an ad company.
And yes, I acknowledge that with respect to privacy, Apple is STILL the less bad choice (compared to Android).
And yes, I acknowledge that there are other options. In fact, when this iPhone dies, I plan on getting a Pixel and putting GrapheneOS on it.
I guess what I'm saying is... I hope that there are more people like me out there... who are sick of paying thousands of dollars for devices that, instead of serving me, serve those who want to collect my information so they can sell me stuff.
edit: "because I can't" instead of "because can't"
For reference:
https://media.wired.com/photos/593252a1edfced5820d0fa07/3:2/...
Other than that, looks like there are some nice Duo specific features on iOS. $1999 is also surprising given that news outlets were reporting up to $2500. Plus it's price competitive with other foldables in the market.
Even though I like the form factor I doubt I’d cash out 2k for it, seems like a waste just to spend more time on another screen.
For foldable phones, this might be a good pick to get caught up (5 months old, but minimal crease): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFUB_jL_XcM
The reason it doesn't actively crease is because it's not like a piece of paper you press on to fold: the screen "rounds" itself, and as long as it doesn't go past a breakpoint (which is what the body of the phone prevents), it'll restore.
You can also see where they are going. In a couple of years, assuming it sells well there will be a Pro model with a 3x fold and better camera system. I'm guessing to make in thinner they will have to drop USB-C and come up with a flat charging/data connector. The EU won't like that.
The final interesting thing is this is the first Apple product that I can think of since the iPod era that they've released a product that will cannibalize another Apple product. If you were looking at getting a high end iPad Mini this replaces both phone and tablet.
There's been a proven market for years already, but it's been less obvious in Western markets. In East Asian markets, foldables have had a very sizable market presence, especially in China.
There's other trends that are less obvious to US and western markets, such as phone crossbody straps (which are also very big in East Asia).
The folding part is the thing the tech journalists say; done right, it shouldn't matter whether it's foldable or not.
Bigger screen, pencil support, nano-glass, etc. The foldable part is obvious, why say it?
It would have made an even larger splotch of the screen look odd.
Look at the low end iPhone’s slowing getting better screens, TouchID, and then FaceID.
It took me a while to figure out I had to click "Explore" to get to the specs, so I'm saving you the trouble.
As long as I'm griping about the web site... Apple, when you introduce a phone with a new and different form factor, please just tell me the dimensions straightaway. This one is shorter and wider than most phones. Is it too wide to fit in my pocket? I need the dimensions to answer that question.
This lead them to use a garbage CPU and support it for something like 2 years.
Apple has the balls to keep updating the vision pro even after it flopped and it will probably get 7 years.
I will say it was a pain in the ass to open and answer calls though when you were busy doing things.
Edit: Wow, I didn’t know Samsung foldable was priced similarly. It’s a lot of money to pay for something inherently fragile.
Plenty of people on HN earn that much money in a single day after tax.
I'm just not seeing the value proposition for a $2000 phone. I already can't comfortably hold or type single-handed on the normal-sized Pro.
In terms of usage hours, my mobile phone comes out near the top. This makes the price almost immaterial.
For those people, $2000 is a good price for a device that does all their digital work.
Matching their top competitor in price is a good look.
They could’ve absolutely floored everyone if it had been $1500, but there’s no way that’s possible, at least having margins anywhere near what Apple likes.
Obviously Apple knew where other foldable phones fell short; they clearly planned to overcome those shortcomings.
If another company could release something like the Duo that seamlessly switches between phone, tablet, and desktop experience and make it Apple quality then Apple are in trouble. The technology is all there since the days of Ubuntu Touch.
Sadly I don't think there is a company in a position to build such a device that could compete.
I personally would like to see the phones behave like iPads when connected to screens and mice and such. I don’t need it to pretend to be a full Mac.
But we all know they’re on the same OS at this point. iOS and iPadOS are completely identical, and this only makes it more obvious.
But I don’t want macOS on an iPhone/iPad. If I wanted a device with poorer hardware security that ran an OS with a fundamentally weaker security model I’d just buy a MacBook and be done with it.
“Ceramic Shield 2 on the outer display reduces glare and provides 3x better scratch resistance than the previous generation”
My previous thought was to use XReal glasses with my existing iPhone but that’s not realistic in an office environment.
I even forgot about this. God damn it, I enjoyed the SE so much because of this.
It kinda sounds like it's a new model of the Apple Pencil coming soon (rather than support coming soon), and older Pencil and Pencil Pros will not work at all. Which, if true, boo.
when the google & Samsung ones first came out they were plagued with problems.
but I think apple should've also had a foldable in the form of a razr ultra since they already have an iPhone air.
It still looks quite decent though.
Also Apple: We've done it the exact way Samsung and Microsoft did it! We even used the same Duo name as Microsoft!
What I actually need might be less of an iPhone and more of a nano than a duo. Something small and portable that doesn't make me spend every spare second on the phone.
The 512 GB version for $2,199 seems like option you’d really want as a minimum, and then you’d need to add AppleCare on top of that. Pricey!
This has to be on purpose.
Imagine being able to hook up a small slab to a keyboard or mouse Bluetooth then connect to a monitor, tablet or hotel tv, like the Samsung Dex can do. And run full laptop/desktop applications. One can dream
I have a Samsung Fold 4. The front screen is too narrow and the folding screen doesn't open all the way anymore.
Not what I expected from a 1400€ phone.
That being said, this is the device I always wanted. Something between an iPad and iPhone.
Most people I see out and about are either using face time, or inexplicably speaking in speakerphone and holding the flat, face up, with the bottom of the phone towards to their mouth in a weird awkward way, or they are using headphones, wired or wireless.
The problem is I want to have small phone that can be expanded to have large screen when needed, glad I’ve solved this decade long conundrum!
https://www.clicks.tech/ca/powerkeyboard
That's a very neat product.
This is usually because my iPhone dings more, and is connected to an always on network connection + phone network, so it's often the point of first-contact with any specific task/response/conversation/work unless I am sitting at my desk at home already.
And while I am someone who does take a laptop and an iPad with them in a backpack at lot of the time, that's not all the time. I'm not walking around the grocery store with a MacBook anything propped up on my cart. I'm not hanging from a strap on a bus or train with a laptop in my hands. And using a laptop on the couch usually makes my wrists hurt.
When that happens I'll often want to look up recipes for that stuff right there in the store. The web has gone to trash. The mobile web is even worse. Adblockers can only help so much, its just that everyone dumbs everything down for small screens. So its very frustrating trying to process some search results and find a decent recipe for some-such and find the rest of the ingredients I need to buy. This is a low time committment task, I need to do this in a busy grocery store, and not block the part of the shelves I parked myself in front of for too long. I mean, I guess I could go home and use my desktop, but odds are I'll just forget. And no, I'm not gonna ask AI for a recipe.
On a screen that big, using Orion and locking it to "always show me desktop mode", I could more comfortably browse and look up these things than I can on my Pro Max sized phone now. The inner screen has a higher resolution than an iPad Mini.
Another example, and it was one they showed only very briefly in the video: I just want a bigger keyboard damnit. They showed an app taking up the top "half" of the inner screen, a keyboard taking up the lower half, with the phone folded at a 110ish degree angle. It's a Sidekick with a touch keyboard. So any time I have some serious typing to do (Slack message regarding something that requires a prompt response but isn't just a few words, not that hard to imagine other examples), that bigger screen is going to give me a keyboard that is much easier to type on than a Pro Max can, because the keys are going to be sized much larger and will not need to rely on the on-device typing guesstimator as much (and that thing is dumb as hell). God, being able to ssh into something and actually have some room for all of the extra keys that make working in a terminal easier, what a world!
Having a real computer for any of these tasks would of course be the ideal, but as portable as those have gotten, they still don't hold a candle to something that fits in my pocket and has a software stack that reliably lets me interact with it in a meaningful way without having to make room for a keyboard and a trackpad.
As for the bigger keyboard, I have tried that in iPad mini. It’s horrible. Because the distance between the keys is too far in that case and it actually slows down your typing. I can imagine the same in Duo when you use one half of it as the full keyboard
I have to hand it to them, they added some really nice touches to the OS for the new form factor. Seems almost like the best of an iPhone and a iPad Mini.
Still not sure I want something that bulky, and maybe I'll wait a few months to see the reviews and how the hinge and screen fold hold up. But tempted for sure...
I don't know who this is for and can't figure out what problem this solves. It's cool, but it's not $2800 cool (yes, it's $800 more expensive in some markets). For that price is has to do more than fold in half, maybe fold into a swan of something.
This is especially true in the younger generation where many of them don’t own a computer. They do everything on their phones or iPads.
Do I want it? Ehhhh. I hate heavy objects. I stopped buying the Pro line because the weight just kept increasing. So I will probably not particularly enjoy that mass of batteries dragging on the purse strap. But I enjoy reading glasses less and I just don't want an unwieldy bigscreen that I can't hold easily like the iPhone Air.
Suspiciously could not see reviews of it yet - usually bloggers like mkbhd get their hands on early, and they release the reviews moment the embargo is off, usually when live event is over. This time nothing.
Here's a live stream of the popular obnoxious streamer, he held it a few minutes ago (also talked with MKBHD).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CPAtEmHAio
I mean I do understand the appeal of the idea of folding smartphones, but I did not hear about any miracle material breakthroughs lately. So.. how can this exist? Why does it say that it is durable, when it has to be made out of materials that cannot be durable or else they wouldn't fold.
Did something change there and I'm just using stale data for that assessment, or is "durability" just not as valuable to the target audience?
More seriously though, now do just the front screen on a non-folding device. It can even remain as thick as this thing when it's folded.
Not much more than the 18 pro max - 8.78 ounces (249 grams). The Duo sure looks chonky, but that's not the end of the world.
The curved right side makes me think so, but it sound like a pain for people using their phone left hand dominantly.
I guess people spend more money than even this on other addictions
10 years from now people will claim Apple invented folding smartphones or made them mainstream, just like they claim the same thing now about smartwatches.
Addition for anyone scrolling: Link to a case on Apple's website for this.
Another addition: Another case without the kickstand
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/mkr94zm/a/iphone-duo-case...
I would not, under any circumstance, use that official case.
My experience; I walked with an iPad Pro in my hand and I went to an interview, so I was a bit nervous. I let the iPad slip out of my hand. It had the official Apple cover, which leaves the edge exposed. So it falls, and drops such that it dents the side. This in turn cracks the display. I learned that Apple will not replace a display when the frame is damaged.
When I'm at home, I can just use my iPad. When I'm on the road, I don't need to be watching content on a slightly larger screen.
I get that I'm not the target audience, but it's still confusing to me why people like foldable phones.
Would rather ditch my phone size thing and be able to pair a cellular Watch to iPad Mini size thing that also has "50% more screen" than iPhone Max
Gen AI could take telemetry like GPS from Watch and recreate most adventures without need of all the pictures; I don't care if every little thing like a day hike is captured "for real"
Would still hire a photographer for actual meaningful moments like weddings and graduations
If you're only capable of reducing the entire comment to a single piece of it you would be wise to sit and meditate on comments first rather than vomit copy pasta opinions; the whole knee jerk copy pasta approach to social media discourse is soulless in its own way
I want it more thinner!!
Great branding by the new CEO
* https://www.wired.com/story/apple-watch-series-12-apple-watc...
it's a mistake though to demand an iphone to own the watch (can't configure it otherwise)
always held me back from ever buying an apple watch, don't want an iphone or ipad
- checking the time (obviously)
- sleep tracking
- high heart rate warnings
- sleep and heart rate trends over time
- reviewing notifications or declining calls without grabbing phone
None of these are "killer apps" but they're conveniences. I like having an accurate source of time that I don't have to pick something up for. I like being able to track my sleep schedule and duration over time. I like to know when my heart rate is high so I can take steps to quiet down. I don't use many of the other features, maybe some sparingly, but I've never really used the Watch for its apps anyway. And I think only the last feature on my list, maybe the last two, needs iPhone.
I've had to go without my Watch for the better part of half a year because it's refurbished and I've been trying to diagnose an Apple Developer Program enrollment issue, and Apple won't tell me which device was previously used so I have to rule out everything I didn't purchase brand new, etc., but I still constantly feel its absence. It's just a convenience but it was a welcome one.
Note that the Watch did previously require an iPhone for initial setup, but it does not anymore.
I was just answering to gp : the Apple Watch pretty much only make sense if you own an iPhone. Else, you’d better buy any other smartwatch brand which will allow you to do much more than an Apple Watch without an iPhone.
This has not been true for a while. Google "apple watch family setup". You just need to know someone with an iphone, once, to set it up. You can even set up cellular and use that for all watch internet needs, incl imessage, calls, facetim (audio), and weather & apps
It seems they are segmenting the market on creator vs consumer between the pro and the duo, and betting the consumers want this form factor.
iPhone 18 Pro Max: 3.07 inches wide
iPhone Duo: 3.31 inches wide
my issue with phone sizes has never been their height, and has always been about resting in my palm.
https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/
Naturally, I can already see people deeming it to be the most beautiful thing ever though.
Truly, I'll never understand Apple, nor their design language.
What other item do you own that you spend so many hours using
I also like to spectate games on Twitch/Youtube, and corners are often used for important stats.
Also I think it would be quite bulky to carry the Duo in a pocket all day long.
then all the photos either what's on the inside it's repeated whats on the outside,
or... and hold your breath... you can show on one side the calendar and on the other side the clock... now you can breath...
Meh, another 2 or 3$k gadget that does the same as the previous one?
Restoring Touch ID is one of the things that might make me upgrade my existing iPhone before its time.
Gosh I hate that idiotic marketing.
Edit: Rate limited so can't reply to the comments. I live in Spain, can't switch to eSIM. I know that the US has 100% integration of eSIM across all providers but outside the US it's not that great. I use eSIM and SIM a lot, have lots of cards and subscriptions. For my main subscription I can't switch to eSIM (yet).
Even mainstream operators in my country have those these days, so you can sign up online without getting to a shop.
While Apple certainly looked at the competitors to see what problems they had, it's far from a given that Apple has managed to actually solve the durability issues, either, much less on their first attempt.
Apple also touts ultra durable screens in their presentation and people still shatter them regularly.
I doubt you did see any from the last few years.
But once again as I said before [0][1], don't buy the first version of an Apple product.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23638202
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26361985
from the Duo page:
- Up to 31 hours video playback when using the inner display
- Up to 44 hours video playback when using the outer display
Can they even do anything new?
Consumerism is mad.
5s/SE1 is still peak iPhone for me. I pull that thing out of the drawer every now and then and just marvel and the size and weight and how it is barely noticeable in my pocket even compared to my (ginormous in comparison) SE2.